Barry Bonds and Blackjack

Discussion in 'Sidewalk Cafe' started by fgk42, Aug 9, 2007.


I consider this to be cheating

  1. repeatedly seeing your opponent's cards in a poker game

    8 vote(s)
  2. repeatedly seeing your opponent's cards in a poker tournament

    8 vote(s)
  3. seeing the dealer's hole card in blackjack

    1 vote(s)
  4. seeing the dealer's hole card in a blackjack tournament

    3 vote(s)
  5. tucking a busted hand in a bj tournament dealt face down

    24 vote(s)
  6. betting over the maximum limit in a bj tour. when the overbet will always be returned

    21 vote(s)
  7. busting out of a bj tour. to change the button position for a friend

    21 vote(s)
  8. accepting a win on a pushed or lost hand in blackjack

    11 vote(s)
  9. accepting a win on a pushed or lost hand in a blackjack tour.

    23 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. marichal

    marichal Member


    that is a great idea. i will also tuck a busted hand tonite at the tourney. this might just be a way of evening the score with the certain group of cheaters in the south seattle area that we play against nightly. is it cheating? it is minor to what we see every night and have to put up with. i do not believe that it is written into the wa. state gaming rules, that one may not do so. i, will use it to my advantage. so, bust and tuck!!!!!
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2007
  2. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member


    I've got a good way to deal with cheaters in the bowling tournaments. You're outta here! No discussion, no B.S., no second chances. Sounds to me like the tournaments managers in Seattle need to grow a little backbone.
    If you toss 'em out once, you usually don't have to do it again.
  3. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member

    tucking a bj

    the Avi tournament in Laughlin is dealt face down - and they specifically allow tucking a bj - if allowed - this is not cheating - but an opportunity to exercise skill - at times tucking is a good idea - other times - exposing can be advantageous - Casinos just need to be definite about tucking being allowed -

    tucking a busted hand is a definite cheat - and should be grounds to throw someone out of a tourney is done deliberately
  4. marichal

    marichal Member


    actually had a t/d, tonite , toss one of the "cheaters" out of a semi-final rd, for not shutting up, (drunk and bothering the players). this was the first time that i have viewed this situation, at that casino. the "cheater" was actually chip leader at the time. so, he got his just due. so, i guess complaining and watching these "cheaters" like a hawk, finally paid off.

    oh, did not tuck a busted hand, tonite. decided not to stoop to their level. hopefully the "cheaters" got the message tonite. this is coming from a person that has played 130 live tourneys since may 15th of this year. so, i might have had to endure a tad bit more abuse, during that time frame by, "cheaters" than some people on this site that just play a tourney here and there
  5. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member


    The TD tossed a guy for being DAD (drunk and disorderly), eh? That's a good start. Now all you gotta do is see one or two of 'em tossed for blatant cheating and perhaps you can get down to playing the game as it is intended to be. Congratulations for not stooping to their level, too!

    Another excellent opinion by RK. Having choice in tucking a BJ does open up strategic advantages - a point I quietly made to the TD in St. Ignace. If the rules say that you must expose a busted hand, or a BJ for that matter, and a player blatantly violates the rule, out they should go.
  6. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    You've played more live tourneys in 4 months than most will play in a lifetime! WOW

    Could you eloborate on "cheaters" - what they do and what we can watch out for.

    I PERSONALLY feel that it is the players at the tables responsibility to protect themselves and report these "cheats" to the pit boss. Yeah I guess I'd be a snitch - but ONLY in BJT! at the cash tables I worry only about myself! :cool:

    Sorry but cash BJ ain't a team sport!
  7. noman

    noman Top Member

    Let's Churn the waters:

    Tucking a bust anywhere is not acceptable.

    Now, not expressly forbidden in a tournament, but only say 2 percent of participants know they can still be paid max BJ while tucking and utilize it as good strategy, are those 2 percent cheating, or is it an incumbant on 98 percent of other players to inquire ahead of time for clarification, if it is even a thought to do so having never encountered the "rule" before?

    Again, I say whatever edge you can employ that is not expressly forbidden is OK. After X gabazillion tournaments, one becomes exposed to almost all the possibilities and it becomes the individual players responsibility to inquire ahead of time, to watch for inconsistancies and make those calls, no matter how disruptive to the event or the casino personel.

    Besides reading the rules it behooves a player to count their starting stack before play, rather than "trust" the dealer.

    Another floating quandry, I mentioned earlier, is the insurance vs even money, particularly in a "sometimes" 2-1 BJ tourney, a 3-2 BJ tourney or GForbid a 6-5 pay tourney. Even though the venerable SWOG views the insurance as a seperate and distinct bet and for practical matters it is, it makes a huge difference in a tourney with those variable BJ payouts.

    Rather than get in a Grosjean discussion with the suits in the middle of a tourney, it would be better to find out ahead of time and adjust your play accordingly.

    Tournaments at the same casino, let alone different casinos have floating interpertations of all kinds of situations.

    TX and the UBT rules folks are the two best at addressing any conceivable "rules" questions. Maybe in the future there will be a "standard" BJT rules. Until then, read the rules, question ahead of time and then be prepared to adjust to the "wronging"
  8. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Nice post and I agree with you regarding both TX's and UBT rules. I too hope for a "gold standard" with BJT.

    On another note: Is this REALLY Noman posting this? I actually understood everything for the first time! Now that's a scarey proposition :eek:
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  9. marichal

    marichal Member


    in the south seattle area, we deal with "gangs" (as we call them). their actions range from, palming chips and passing them to their members, talking in languages, other than english (tipping off the player at the table on what cards the other players have, along with general coaching on how to play their hands, while standing behind the table, since there is not a 3ft rule). another problem, is since on some tourneys we play double deck, face down, they "semi" tuck their cards ( place them on the table but not under their chips), and then allow the dealer to pass them up so they can see what the next card is if another player is hitting. then, they say that they wanted to dd, or hit their hand if the card is of value to them and, that should have been their card. since the dealers to not want to upset their customers (tokes), they have backed up the cards at least four times at my tables in the last few weeks. this situation has gotten somewhat better, since we are policing it closely and making the td aware of this practice.

    these are a few examples of what we see in the daily tourneys. hopefully by self policing, we can correct these and other problems.
  10. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Thanks for clueing me into something like that. Why not just have all cards dealt face up? Then you eliminate the tuck no tuck problem.

    With regard to palming, coaching and such - If I were the tournament director it's simple:

    First time offense: Verbal Warning
    Second time offense: 2 chip penalty
    Third time offense: Cya buddy!
  11. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Corrections coming soon...

    During the Seattle TBJPA events all the cards will be dealt face up.

    Also three of the powers that be from the Seattle events are currently here in Laughlin and have told me that they like the way the TBJPA runs the events and told me that they want me to strictly enforce all the rules regardless who the players are (locals or out of towners).

    I guess the (gangs) will be in for a rude awakening next month if they don't follow the rules...LOL
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2007
  12. leilahay

    leilahay Member


    Wish that TD saw it your way FGK but as Tex says, the bigwigs are in Laughlin learning how to do things right. Also have had very good calls by tourn directors up here in the last week--one ousting the drunk who wouldn't stop talking & pawing me during semi, & the 2nd who gave a player, who answered cell phone right before she placed her bet on final hand, a $10 bet.
    Too much of the time the attitude here is that it's "just for fun" since these are minis. When you have $2000-2600, 1 to 3 times daily, 365 days a year, it's not just for fun. Do the math.

    As for all hands dealt face up, uniform rules would be great. We play at a half dozen different casinos and the rules are never quite the same. Sometimes have to do a quick review mentally when I first sit down and remind myself whats different. Most minis are 14 hands, DD, face down, 2:1 BJ, hit soft 17, count after hand 11, but just about every other imaginable variation exists.

    It's many things, but never boring.
  13. ANDY 956

    ANDY 956 Member

    Face Up

    Thank f*** for that!

    When I read on here that they were playing face down in Seattle tournaments my nerve really went.

    There is no way I could handle a face down game on my first live BJ tourney. A face up game will be difficult enough for me.

    Just as I was looking for my printed copy of the TBJPA rules and ready to pony my pants, luckily Rick posted the above and stopped an embarrassing accident from occurring.

    Andy :eek:
  14. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Andy, don't feel bad. In fact at the first celebrity BJT event there was a real nasty event that happend just like that and it was caught on film.

    That player was so embarressed when we found out that he just flew off the handle and invaded Kuwait...and now you have the rest of the story.

    That's one of the reasons TX decided to have printed rules - plus the odor was horrible! :laugh:

    Attached Files:

  15. noman

    noman Top Member

    Just for the Record:

    Noman is half way through the home study course on how to "THINK, WRITE and SPEAK CLEARER," supplemented of Course by the purloined Dale Carniege Course, but with still a touch of Lenny Bruce's "influence pipple."

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