Boycot Bet21

Discussion in 'Blackjack Events (Online Casinos)' started by fgk42, Mar 20, 2007.

  1. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Someone brought something to my attention recently and I wanted to share it with other members here – especially those who play on

    I won’t rehash the broken promises things only this:

    Since August-January I PERSONALLY have paid the following fees in rakes:

    SNG: 1,626.10
    Tourneys: 326.70

    Total fees give to = 1,952.80

    In the month of February alone:

    SNG: 380.00
    Tourneys: 140.00

    Total fees in February 520.00

    Total fees from August to February 2,472.80


    Now I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m assuming that I’m their top 10% of players (i.e., number of games – NOT skill levels). I didn’t even include the month of March but why, WHY should they pay me the pending deposit bonus if I keep playing?

    So here it is:


    I encourage others to reconsider your position. This has nothing to do with EBJ – I love the game. It has nothing to do with UBT – I will play at their LIVE EVENTS. It has everything to do with making a company accountable to THEIR PROMISES.
  2. GHermanski

    GHermanski Banned User

    When I was younger, kids in grammar school would say, "DUH!" Why would you continue to give money to a business that shows you it cannot be trusted? This is blatant false advertising on their part but you and everyone else who continues to give them money play right into their sleazy hands. Why did it take you this long to stop? And if you don't believe there's a connection between UBT and bet21 you're even stupider than they think you are. Call the people at UBT and tell them you won't play in any of their tournaments if they accept advertising from deceptive and dishonest companies. Otherwise, you're just a stooge.
    Now here comes Joe I'm sure.
  3. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member


    Those are the HOUSE VIG that they’ve collected from me.

    I’ve wagered from August to February the following:

    SNG: $21,138.00
    Tourney Entry: $5,882.00

    Total Wagered from August to February : over $27,020 on

    Now that’s not a whole lot for a 7 month period – but I think it is still substantial.

    What upsets me is several things:

    1. They PROMOTED AND STILL PROMOTES their deposit bonuses
    2. Someone at LIED to Joep who posted what he was told
    3. Someone at LIED to Hollywood Dave who posted what he was told
    4. The customer service department at won’t answer my questions correctly.

    If had NEVER mentioned the deposit bonuses I would be this upset. However if you say something then live up to it or tell people how you intend to make it better.

    To simply ignore the problem and hope it goes away – BIG MISTAKE.
  4. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    I trusted because of the word of several prominant BJ members. In the beginning ANY business has problems and start up "gremlins" - that is to be expected.

    GH it took me so long because I was willing to put up with the inconvence because I LOVE the game. It's fun, exciting and I don't want to stop playing. For me the several messages to CS about the second 25,000 satellite was the beginning of the end. Each of us has a different tolerance and pushed me to my limit.

    UBT created the game and format. UBT held a great event in Aruba that I attended. I expect the other UBT LIVE events to be good also. UBT has the TV program which I like. UBT has freerolls to their final tables.

    UBT has communication problems - in particular no one to represent them and no way to find out answers to my questions.

    No GH, my beef is not with UBT but with the broken promises from

    I welcome Joe to come here. In fact I'm sure that Joep is probably MORE UPSET and angry with than any of us.

    Joep has made it perfectly clear of three things:
    1. When you wanna know - just ask Joe and
    2. He is a man of his word and he fights/defends his word/honor to the end. Those are good and admirable traits.
    3. Joep is a passionate person when it comes to TBJ

    In addition as a former law officer I can only assume that Joep is a believer in the Rule of Law. Simply put if you say you're gonna do something - Just Do It!

    Joep put his reputation on the line when you publically announced:
    Posted November 19, 2006

    Now I do not believe that Joep would PURPOSELY post false information. Therefore I have to assume that whomever Joep spoke to lied to Joep about the deposit bonus situation.

    This happened 2 months later – only this time it was Hollywood Dave who posted this:

    Posted January 5, 2007

    Once again HD was only the messenger. I do not believe that HD would PURPOSELY post false information. Therefore, once again I have to come to the conclusion that HD was mislead/lied to also.

    It is my understanding that the purpose of this forum was to be an area/avenue where people could share ideas/techniques/information with one another. That is all I am doing – simply sharing MY experiences with others. I’m letting people know that they are not alone when dealing with

    In the past I decided to bide my time and give them the benefit of the doubt for reasons that I’ve already discussed. However after evasive answers from CS, having respected members such as Joep and HD being duped and lied to I say this: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    So GH – do I expect Joep to come on here soon? Absolutely. I expect Joep to use his uncanny abilities to out the person(s) who have deceived the BJ community about the misleading and deceptive practices of I expect Joep to use his passion for the game of BJ to rise up in righteous anger at the nameless faces behind and to “set the record straight”

    GH my postings here are not an attack on any one person or business. They are merely my observations - I have no “ax to grind” - simply show me my money!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  5. Archie

    Archie New Member

    Holy mackerel!!! Woaa

    I admire you, Fred, for the stand on principle you're taking, but aren't you punishing yourself more than them with this boycott!

    You and me are passionate about this game and there is also a pool, however small, of similar enthusiasts for real money games on Bet 21(I would wildguess between 50 and a 100 tops, and I believe I'm generous with that figure).

    This is obviously a fragile the moment. How long can they go on financing a game (however good and with so much potential) with all the obstacles put in their way by the government.

    Our little group of enthusiasts is not stupid. In my mind, everything is fair and top quality about Bet21, except the deceiving attitude of the marketing department and whoever owns the joint.

    The lack of transparence, their refusal to talk to us directly in plain language (we would...well I would...sympathize and understand their difficulties) is showing a lack of respect. Hell, we are their best customers. These fierce critics that some seem to loath are there for the long run. We are the ones who will make this site a success story. Treat us good and with respect, Bet21, we are your best asset.

    Where is the Daniel Valentine of Bet21!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  6. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    Barney there is one more think I want to make clear to you. And now since there will be no conflict for me in regards to playing both the Barona circuit event and the Palms event.The last think I want to make perfectly clear to you is that.........You know sometimes things are misinterpreted when said over the keyboard,but when I get to make my final point to you face to face you will not be confused on where I stand or my feelings.Please don't make me have to track you down in Barona come and hear my final point that I'm so so passionate about.LQQKING forward to our meeting. ;)

  7. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    I can only assume that....

    Am I punishing myself – probably but I figure I’ll just join the ranks of Leftnut and play freerolls from now on! That will give me my EBJ fix – until gets their things fixed.

    That’s ENTIRELY my point. I would say that I’m in the top 10% of players at (in number of games/tourneys) Up until now I challenge ANYONE to find where I have been AGAINST – except to post hints and suggestions.

    If is having/experiencing financial problems and can’t pay the promised deposit bonuses then just say so.

    If the UIGEA is hurting their business and is having financial problems that caused it to cancel their sponsorship of the Aruba UBT event – say so.

    The American public, at least me, is forgiving. If someone from came on this site and posted a time and date then maybe I would forgo my boycott. Since that hasn’t happened that I have to assume one of two things:

    1. They have contempt for their customers – THAT PISSES ME OFF ROYALLY
    2. is having huge financial cash flow problems and they are on the edge of bankruptcy. In this instance we could have another Neteller on our hands.

    If can’t pay me my measly 294.74 in deposit bonus that has been promised to me since my initial deposit in August how can I trust them with additional money in their account. Suppose they go belly up? Where can I turn to get my money back? Will I be able to go to the US Government? They will simply say, “I told you so.”

    Therefore, since I find it hard to believe that any company has that much contempt for their best customers I have to conclude that:


    Now I hope I'm wrong but I didn't believe it when people warned me about the passage of UIGEA - we all got screwed

    I didn't believe that Neteller would freeze my funds - I got screwed.

    Since won't answer me, they won't pay me, they cancel sponsored events - the writing is on the wall. I'd be careful how much money, if any, I left in my account.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  8. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member


    for specific reasons

  9. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  10. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    Think Outside The Box

    Fred I always admire someone who takes a stand when they believe in their position.Yes you are right about the amount of time that the deposit bonus has taken to fulfill,but why would you punish yourself from the ability to play up to 10 to 12 Guarantee tournaments every night on There isn't a site anywhere that offers these kind of tournaments night after night with sometimes huge overlays to the players.Yet no one points that out, that have from day 1 and continue to pay a lot more than they have taken in night after night, yet you draw a line in the sand and encourage others to stand with you on the wrong side of the EV line.

    Any tournament that returns all the entry fees collected is a good tournament,any tournament that returns more than the entry fees is a "Great" tournament.

    Fred winning a small battle does not always win the war.I will say once again I believe that the bonus money will be resolved to everyones satisfaction,well maybe not everyone as we always have on this board 2 or 3 " Stir The Pot" at any cost posters,but I believe the majority of the members here really pay no attention to their useless and no content ramblings that we must sift through day after day.

    Lets talk about the money that Bet pay out every night and not about how they don't have the money to pay the bonuses,because if that was really true the multiple guarantee tournaments every day would no longer exist.

    They continue to offer players from the USA a place to play blackjack & Poker on the INTERNET,while other sites pulled up their stakes took their big fat profits and left us all holding the bag with no place to play.Why shoot yourself in the foot Fred it only hampers you ability to get around.

    As someone who always looks for a positive EV in any game offered take my advice, the players that chased bonuses around the INTERNET are long gone and so are the bonuses they chased. most of them were tagged as bonus chasers and had their accounts closed. So I ask you are you/we here to play tournament blackjack or chase a bonus around and around. Stand still it will come to you but in the mean time you are missing the gravy train.

    I hope to see you back on the tables at

  11. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Someone must slay the beast....

    Joe, I need to correct you on this point. I have been a huge supporter of You may not recall but during your absence I was banned for three (3) days because of name calling. In that thread I was yelling to all who would listen about the great EV in the 25,000 satellite tourney.

    Also this BOYCOTT is MY PERSONAL declaration. I have not encouraged anyone else to withdraw from That is their decision.

    I agree with you about the good and great tourneys. My complaint is NOT with the games. Once again I have crowed about holding the 25,000 events and even had suggestions to them about how to further increase their business – see these threads to refresh you memory

    While this is a true statement I have to wonder – what happens if there is a problem with Where would I go for recourse? I never believed that Neteller would have problems but I’ve got frozen funds there and it is likely I won’t see that money again. Who’s to say the same thing won’t happen with

    Joe I understand that there were people trying to make $ from the deposit bonus situations. In the past it could be done. Please don’t lump ME into that category. I’ve been patient with I’ve fulfilled MY end of the bargain – why don’t they?[/quote]

    Joep at this point it really isn’t about the money – it’s a principle issue for me. That’s what makes this so much more difficult. I could just capitulate, ride the tide and enjoy what’s there – I’ve been doing that for quite some time.

    As you know I’ve played many, many, many games at You’ve also seen my results. Does what I’m doing make any practical sense?

    Someone whom I trust for their opinion and judgment said this to me recently, “I really think that the issue is what does a reputable business do when it has an error in advertising. Most businesses place an ad and say it was a mistake and “We are sorry for any inconvience this may have caused, as a token of our appreciation we are offering our players the following…” and then they would say what players would get.”

    Then I thought about it, when I go to Best Buy, Beds Bath and Beyond, or any other store to purchase an item what happens? If there was a misprint in the advertisement they usually apologize but they make it right. I’ve gotten rain checks or discount coupons, etc. My point is those stores don’t fight with me. They value me as a customer and know that if they treat me right I’ll return.

    I don’t get the feeling that values me as a customer. In fact I get the opposite impression – almost like they ( hold me in contempt. I envision the owners starting at the computer screens, smoking cigars (think Capital One commercial) saying, who does this FGK42 think he is? Little pest. He thinks he’s getting money from us? Hahahahaha. Let’s go have a shrimp cocktail.

    So the question I have to ask myself is how much pride do I have? Do I stand on principle and stand my ground or do I just play along and be a lemming by allowing to continue unchecked, the elephant in the room?

    It would be so much easier if they sent me an e-mail saying, “We’re so sorry for our oversight Mr. FGK42. As a valued customer of we apologize for any inconvience we may have caused you. After reviewing your playing records for the past six months we see that you, you have met the requirements for redemption of the deposit dollars and we are happy to inform you that your bonus has been credited to your account. Please accept our sincerest apologies and we look forward to seeing you at the tables!”

    Or I’d even be happy with this, “We’re so sorry for not dealing with your pending dollar bonus issue sooner. At this juncture we are experiencing a slowdown due to the US government’s enactment of the UIGAE. We here at did not anticipate this unfortunate passage and how it would impact the online gaming world. Because of this we have had to restructure our business model and at this time we cannot meet our obligations to our valued customers like yourself. Rest assured we will continue to monitor this issue and as a sign of good faith we would like to offer you tournament dollars instead of real dollars at this time. The tournament dollars can be used to play our nightly elimination blackjack tournaments or for sit-n-go tables. Please accept our sincerest apologies and we look forward to seeing you at the tables.”

    Until then I will continue on my quest, not for the Golden Fleece, not for the Holy Grail but for those elusive mythical Bonus Dollars.

    Until then Joe you won’t see me at the tables – the easy picking for you are gone – you can go back into retirement – again! :joker:

    Attached Files:

  12. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    [quote=fgk42;25768]Joe, I need to correct you on this point.

    Also this BOYCOTT is MY PERSONAL declaration. I have not encouraged anyone else to withdraw from That is their decision.

    Fred even though you say you didnt encourage others to follow you to the wrong side of the EV line. These are your words not mine.

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2007
  13. TedinNaples

    TedinNaples New Member

    To Fred from Ted


    I'm sad to read that you won't be sitting next to me at a table any more, joking, "pun"ning, laughing, and just simply enjoying ourselves. You've become someone I really look forward to having at my table, even though I know you have me "profiled." :)

    I understand totally and completely why you're boycotting I am also a firm believer in treating customers fairly -- even in cases when the customer is definitely wrong. I've heard some outlandish stories about how well Nordstrom treats their customers (and non-customers, as a guy tried to return tires to Nordstrom and they refunded his money, even though they don't sell tires!). And I've refused to do business with some stores (brick & mortar and online) over the years, over a simple issue (it was principle and not the money that got me to stop using them). And you know what? Some of these companies no longer exist! Duh!

    When I was the marketing director of a publishing firm, I empowered my staff to issue refunds, free reports, additional subscriptions, etc., to any complaining customer -- even though the customer may have been way off or wrong in their complaint. Guess what? We had a satisfied customer who more than made up our gift's cost in future purchases. (And you, being in the top 10% of players at bet21, are definitely a money generator for the site, since they collect a few dollars from you every time you play.)

    Anyway...the thing about is this for me. I've done quite well on the site. And even though I don't have the actual statistics of how much I've shelled out, played in SNGs vs tournaments, etc., I do know that a big portion of my winnings is probably due to the overlays I've received in the tournaments that I've won money in. If I win $500 in a tournament that has a 25% overlay, that means I've won an extra $100. Had not guaranteed a certain amount for the tourney, that wouldn't have happened. For me, this is huge. Do I play negative EV tournaments? Sometimes. Sometimes it's just to play and sometimes it winds up that way due to five people joining in during the last 30 seconds. So while I feel, as you do, that the folks at have no customer service, nor marketing, nor business skills, I do enjoy those positive EV tournaments. And, like you, Fred, living in Florida just doesn't make it easy for me to play in live events.

    I will do one thing today that may or may not keep me from playing on bet21. I will ask for a withdrawal of some of my funds, just to make sure I don't get screwed out of all my winnings. If this procedure goes well, then I'll keep playing. However, if it does not, I will scream louder than you about how and its supporters and affiliates are $%^&*.
  14. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    896 post and still not even one of insight, knowldege or value :joker:

  15. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    Now that may be the funniest thing I have heard in a long time you asking a serious question.

    There is nothing serious about you :joker: or your post.You torture this whole board with an average of over 2.44 post per day more that our administrator Ken Smith. How could you possible have more to say than Ken Smith does?

    I never slammed the players at the Hilton.It was the Hilton I slammed for charging the players $100 for the "Mulligan".You need to get your facts right before you open you mouth and nothing but :vomit: garbage and lies emits from your mouth.

    Ken is there a way to put Barney post on a subscription rate? This way we don't have to sift through his 2.44 post per day of pure nonsense and trash every day.One would think that this creature has no family and no life since he spends all of his time and energy here.

  16. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member


    It is not Joep position to resolve this issue – it is’s job. I’m being as transparent as I can about this whole thing.

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. I just want an open, honest and forthright explanation from the company that I’m dealing with. If they can’t make good on their promise tell me why.

    Is that being so unreasonable?


    Perhaps you could join me on this quest to resolve the issue. Why not invite the executives at to the radio show tomorrow night? Give them,, a chance to publicly discuss their site, their plans. I’m sure you would have a large audience to tune it to hear, first hand, about what plans for the future and how they want to resolve this pending dollar bonus issue.


    Yes I will miss the table banter with you and several other players. In fact sometimes I would play for the social interaction and the actual winning of the BJT was secondary. (at least that’s how I rationalize loosing so much :laugh:

    Finally, to

    I will not speak for others. I however am very lenient and forgiving up to a point. Please don’t stonewall and circle the wagons. I am not against you – quite the contrary I wish to see EBJ and those supporters thrive and flourish. However I can no longer follow blindly down roads without any direction. I was burned with Neteller and what happened to them. I admire that they stood their ground and once they have their issues resolved I will be an ardent depositor with them – just to show my support.

    Please be forthright with your customers – that’s all I ask.
  17. Joep

    Joep Active Member

    Fred because of the current legal issues in regards to owners of Internet gaming sites and our government arresting any and all owners of said companies.The owner/owners of Bet21 do not live in the USA and until our government finally resolves this issue and gives our nation what we want, all owners of such companies will be forced to live outside of our borders.This law will be overturned in about 2 years and then at the time Harrahs and MGM will run all the legal INTERNET gambling sites in the USA .You can go to the bank on that one.

  18. BJFAN4

    BJFAN4 New Member

    bet21/UB Owners... LOL

    Perhaps they could call in from Costa Rica....:joker: :joker: :joker:
  19. GHermanski

    GHermanski Banned User

    The legal owners of bet21 may not live in the US, but it's time for everyone to come clean with the connection everyone has between the UBT and bet21. Too scared for the truth?
  20. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not sure I understand what that would accomplish. And, given the current state of affairs, it sounds like a really dumb idea anyway.

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