Chip counting

Discussion in 'Ideas to Promote or Improve Tournaments' started by Fredguy, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. Fredguy

    Fredguy New Member

    A quote from Joe Pane, over at LVA forum...(spelling error and all)

    " in tournaments chip counting is a skill that can be learned by all and why reward players who would not try to improve their tournament game by improving their chip counting prowless."

    So, you are at third base, in a dimly lit casino, playing with unstriped chips,
    trying to count the chips in random stacks at first base, with less than perfect eyesight.......

    This is a SKILL ?????

    Ricks chip stacking rule is a start....but even it could be improved. I wonder what others think about this. Is chip counting really a skill we want to be instrumental in BJ tournaments ?
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2009
  2. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    Chip counting gives a big advantage to those with the ability to do it. I havent heard many new players complain about chip stack totals mainly because they dont understand the value of being able to count chips. So, I dont know if this subject has much of a value for bringing more players and returning them back to the game. I did witness novice players at the Viejas liking the casinos using 20 starting chips of no denomination. If making the chip counting easier something like that would be good.

    BTW, Ricks tally board after counts was a good thing for sure.
  3. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Thanks guys

    Thanks for the for kind words above, but I want to give credit where credit is due.

    The players table card with count totals written on them for all to see was Richard Rockwells. That was used at the old Fronter tournaments for years.

    The chip stacks were something I first saw at some smaller mini tournaments and later used by UBT.

    The surrender cards and few other TBJPA rules were my ideas.

    I still believe that "IF" we can ever get a set of standard blackjack tournament rules to be used around the country we can start building a larger tournament commuity.

    To answer Fredguys request, we could always go to stacks of 5 chips. Problem there is we would have to many stacks across the table and make it harder to count (and easier to hide chips as well). When multiple stacks start occuring stacks end up being placed in front of other stacks and as a TD this is not good. Anytime chips are not in clear view problems can happen.

    The entire concept of the TBJPA rules is to offer players with the best possible rules. They are not about what I like, but what the majority of the players like. Several of these rules have been around for years just not all used in the same tournament. The TBJPA rules were made up by most every member on this site. Before I added any I always polled the members to see what the majority wanted.

    These rules benifit the novice players as well as the season tournament players and that was my goal. Now if anyone thinks there is room for improvement I am always open for ways to improve the rules.
  4. Fredguy

    Fredguy New Member

    Spelling Error

    I see Ken was kind enough to correct my error in spelling Joe's name.

    However he missed Joe's error in his use of the word "prowless", which I guess means the absence of prowling ?

    Regarding Rick's comments, the proliferation of chip stacks if chips were to be stacked no higher than five could easily be controlled with color changes.
    Striped chips, stacked no higher than five would go a long way in making chip counting a non issue in tournaments. In my humble opinion, thats the way it should be. Card playing and bet selection should be paramount, not how well one can see.
  5. acemachine

    acemachine New Member

    just my 2 cents worth. can you add and subtract ?
    Blind players have played the game very well.
    my vision was never good. never layed my head on
    table to count chips. probably could tell what you
    had every hand.
    why make it so easy for the lazy.
  6. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    Well, now.... I find myself in the interesting position of agreeing with both sides of this issue.

    Keep the chip counting - Yes, it is a skill that is required in BJT play, and if one is quite proficient at it, then one should be able to use this skill to gain advantage. Acemachine has it right.

    Lose the chip counting - BJT's in general are hurtin' bad. This isn't poker, where huge tournament fields are the norm. If we hope to change this, then the BJT's (and us) have to change. This means we need new players, and discouraging them with an esoteric skill like being able to peer across the table to count chip stacks isn't going to help. Poker's meteoric rise was fueled almost entirely by the Internet. Right now, this won't happen for us mostly because of UIGEA, but if that goes away, we need to make live BJT's reasonably attractive for those who have cut their teeth on website BJT's because the chip counts are constantly displayed there. Yes, it sucks to lose that advantage, but we'll have to change if we want to see BJT's become highly popular.
  7. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Stack size and eye sight

    What I have found is as long as the stacks have no more then a set amount in them (such as 10 per stack) the count is pretty easy and eliminates multiple stacks of the same value chips (2 /10 stacks vs. 4/5 stacks per same value chips).

    As far as good eye slight, I was fortunate to have had GREAT eye slight for most of my life, however now Regina (she was the blind player on WSOB 1 & 2) is about the only tournament player that I can see better then. Hopefully the surgeries I have scheduled in the near further can help me regain my vision, but even with my current vision problems I find it easier to get a quick count with the chips in stacks of 10 vs. 5.

    But that is just my opinion.
  8. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    My last tourney semi final 1 of 7 advance. Player at third base cant see well so dealer slides upcard to him each time so he can have a look. He went to the finals- LOL.

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