Dealing with being "the bad guy" at final table -- serious ? from a recent tourney

Discussion in 'Blackjack Events (USA)' started by bigplayer2, Sep 21, 2007.

  1. bigplayer2

    bigplayer2 New Member

    Here's my situation. I am a high stakes player and I regularly get invited to very lucrative freeroll tournaments. Tournaments like $500k given away and there are only 100 players. Nice! So anyway I was at a tournament recently and lost before making final table. I stuck around for final table and there were 6 players. Total prize was $300k. They decided to split the $300k before starting and each got $50k. Nice for them, but I was presented with a substantial question.

    If it had been me, I would not have agreed to split the money. Mainly because I think I am better than the "average" player and my expected value was more than $50k. Although the quality of play at these tournaments has increased dramatically in the last few years (thanks to all of the televised blackjack crap), by and large the players at these games are not great.

    However, that would have raised some problems. First of all, everyone would have hated me. I don't think there would be a concerted effort to make me lose, but suppose there was? I think they could really shake things up by having one person bet big on each early hand. One of them has to win and then I am chasing a huge bankroll. Maybe that's not an ideal strategy for them, or not realistic. Or maybe I end up in 2nd or 3rd in that scenario (and better off than splitting the money).

    Put simply, what should I do in that situation? Agree to split the money? And if no, how should I alter my play the last table -- if at all -- to deal with being everyone's enemy/target?
    Ternamint likes this.
  2. Billy C

    Billy C Top Member

    Do Your Own Thing!

    High Stakes Guy,
    You have no reason to be apologetic in that situation. Go for it anyway you want to!
    By the way, who has tournaments that big?

    Billy C
  3. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    Play your normal game dont worry about black helicopters! If you want to vote no DO IT!
  4. Moses

    Moses Active Member

    Go For The Win

    Most of us who play tournaments, play to win rather than just make the final table. I would not want to "chop" the prize pool for the final table.

    Stand your ground.
  5. bigplayer2

    bigplayer2 New Member

    Lots of the fancy joints in Vegas have tourneys that big but they don't advertise or anything. Special invite. I've seen some that I wasn't invited to that are even bigger. Like $1m in prize money and 80 entrants. No buy-in. But you need a mid-six figure credit line and an average bet of at least $500+.

    I'd have no interest in the split usually, but it would be tough being the only dissenter. Maybe I could negotiate a higher % or something.
  6. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

    I usually prefer to chop since by chopping you normally get between 2-3 place money and ypu may be better than some but all it takes is one loss and you can go from chip leader to last and barely hanging in. How many times do you get your chips in the pot with the best hand and get sucked out on. If one person has a large chip lead I offer him or her a larger percentage and then play for the bracelet or whatever if there is one.
    Ternamint likes this.
  7. Ternamint

    Ternamint Member

    Thoughts and questions about chopping. I wouldn't worry about being ganged up on in the current event, unless all the players knew each other and had time to work out a collusion plan. I would be concerned if you thought the management would not invite you to future events because a whale got pissed and gave the house an earful.

    You might be (or have been in 2007) better than average in the tournament field but what about being better than average among the final table players? Should we expect the final table to have better players on average than the field? If they are then would you be more open to chopping?

    If a chop will be unequal, how do you figure it out? Poker rooms use software to calculate chops but the players can deviate from the software suggestion unless they agree to stand by it prior to the calculation.

    I heard chops discussed at a casino that said something lie they had to have a "winner", so that person would get more than the others to cover taxes. I don't know if they got 1 promo chip more or if they had to get 1st place money. Then you have to worry about getting your fair share. I don't want to deal with other players.

    If the house won't split it all up evenly or by an agreed chop, I wouldn't do it.

    I'm not sure chopping is a good idea or how to really figure it out. I have read about it in poker and this might work in BJ. If you can work it to your advantage, maybe you chop. If you hold out at first until you know the others want it, ask for enough extra to agree to the deal! If it's $50K cash + $50K promo ev, divide by 6 and ask them all to pitch in x% or the odd $333 cash each...$50K/6 = $8,333. Settle for $250 each for an extra $1,000 and no risk.

    You would have to ask for too much extra promo to get good ev out of it. The other players might overvalue the promo chips.
  8. The_Professional

    The_Professional Active Member

    The bottom line is chopping reduces variance and as as JG said "EV is not everything". So, it saves everyone time and stress. It works better on top heavy tournaments, so everyone who gets to the final get a decent amount. It is also better when the pay is all in prom chips, so if the casino insists on having a winner, no W2G to worry about. In some tournaments, players agree to play the final and give higher amount for 1st or 1st and 2nd place. There are all kind of nice dilemmas to have to deal with.
    Ternamint likes this.
  9. Ternamint

    Ternamint Member

    It is also possible the OPs undervalue the promo chips (I think i meant ev as in ev of these) and/or you angle to get extra for them by finding a play until you lose opportunity (longshot). I like the scenario where you get 25k in funny chips in stead of, say 8333 cash. Some may think that's a good deal and proceed to chop. They don't "have to take the risk" of making less than 50% per chip. Probably a tough sell.

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