Fredguy's golf format

Discussion in 'Ideas to Promote or Improve Tournaments' started by Fredguy, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Fredguy

    Fredguy New Member

    New Tournament Format

    Here's an concept I have been thinking about for sometime. It's actually a takeoff on a tournament format that was outlined in this forum some time ago.

    It has a couple of objectives...
    1- To minimize the "luck factor" as much as possible
    2- To provide the players with the most enjoyable experience by allowing all players to compete through the final round.

    A- It would always be a 2 day tournament. Depending on the number of players, and the number of table available, there would be a minimum of 4 rounds or a maximum of six rounds per day.

    B- All players would play in each round. Points would be accrued based on the following schedule:
    1st place 10 points
    2nd place 6 points
    3rd - 6th place 4 to 1 point.

    C- Final round, final table the 6 players with the highest accumulated point totals. (in the event of a tie, the accumlated dollar value will be used)
    Final round, all other tables, all players play.. first place each table gets their entrance fee back.

    All of the TBJPA rules would apply, except there would be no rebuys,ever.

    Oe last part of this idea is the use of the DOVER (a contraction of do-over)
    chip. The chip would not be sold but would be issued to each player with the beginning chip total. All rules governing the use of the Hilton Mulligan chip would apply here.

    A simple computer program could be written to control all the necessary bookkeeping involved with this ,and to accomplish the seeding of players
    for the various rounds.
  2. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    Since this post was difficult to locate inside a thread about Rick's airline format, I copied it out to a thread of its own.
  3. London Colin

    London Colin Top Member


    I like the idea, but I wonder if ties among several top points scorers might be a little too common (if there's a large turnout and 8-12 rounds), giving undue importance to the tie-breaking mechanism.

    When it comes to resolving ties, I think I'd prefer a count-back of the most 1st places taken, most 2nd places taken (in the event of a tie in the number of 1st places), etc., rather than adding up the accumulated chips won at the tables, though there is more chance that you may get ties that still cannot be resolved by that mechanism, due to identical results.

    Overall, I think I'd rather do away with the idea of a tie-breaker altogether and have a concept of 'making the cut', similar to golf -

    The top 6 determine the score needed to qualify for the final stages. If there are 6 outright leaders, then they go straight to the final table. If more than 6 qualify, then there is a semi-final round (or even a quarter-final, if the number of ties should happen to be enormous).
  4. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Golf format breakdown...

    Fred lets say that you have 114 players, one less then the last Fitz. tournament in Tunica. Has to be divided by 6 to work.

    At a $250 entry fee X 114 = $28,500 prize pool.

    Now we have 114 players with 6 players per table = 19 tables with lets say 7 tables per round it would take 3 session per round at hour per round = 3 hours for each full round.

    With a 4 round tournament you could play Rounds I & II on Saturday (post results later in the evening or at least before Round III, take an hour to get results before Round IV. Take about another hour to get the final results and see who advances to the finals.

    Saturday would have 6 hours of play. Possible 10:00 am to 4:00 pm play.

    Sunday would have 9 hours of play (adding the two times to add up the scores for everyone and add in the final table). Possible 8:00 am to 4:00 pm.

    Plus if their ends up being a tie to get your final 6 players you would have to have some type of a playoff, going by most chips wouldn't fly except to piss off a player(s), so add more time.

    The up front problems I see with this format is it would be using to many of their tables on the weekend and dealers (about 3 X's the normal payroll the casino would spend for a tournament.) Besides the extra you have to add what they would be losing on those tables closed down over the weekend.

    If a casino tried this format they would have to take a drag from the prize pool to cover the additional cost.

    Now think about this factor, most players that know there out may not stay around to play their III & IV rounds so they may leave earlier to get home. Now if this happens it throws the point system out of wack since every table would have to the same number of players (6) to be fair.

    It is basicly a modified accumulation format using points instead of total chips. The biggest difference is in the Golf format point system you could be closed out before the III & IV rounds where in a standard accumulation format you can always bet enough, DD, and split to try and win enough to still advance.

    So no offence, but I don't see the Golf format as a worth while tournament option for the casinos. Plus sound like to much work for most tournament staff.

    I could see a bigger entry fee $5,000 or higher played on four tables with 24 total players as an interesting tournament. it could easily beable to play in one day but then that defeats your whole propose.
  5. Fredguy

    Fredguy New Member

    Golf format

    This is how I see this format going down....

    120 players, $500.00 entry fee, total purse $60,000.00

    7 rounds...4 the first day, 3 the second day, plus the consolation/final table round.

    10 tables needed for each round, two flights

    day one...rounds starting at 9, 11,1 and 3
    day two rounds starting at 9, 11,1 and 3
    flights on the hour

    Actually, the more rounds, the better. If this could be set up in a ball room, with 20 tables, the number of rounds could be doubled.

    seating for all 8 rounds, predetermined so when a player registers, they will get their flight, table and seat assignments for all rounds in advance. Randomally assigned by a computer program.

    after each round a leader "board" can be printed and posted for all to see the up to minute standings, thus adding to the overall excitement.

    a computer program tracks the players scores and also tracks total dollars won for the final table tie breaker (if necessary).

    Final table and consolation round (round 8) occur simultaneously. Consolation table winners get their $500.00 back. Final table, first place $40,000, etc.

    Benefits: By playing at least 7 rounds the luck factor is minimized.
    After the first day, I can foresee some interesting strategic playing to gain overall position, a new tournament skill factor.
    Giving all players the ability to play every round with a chance to win right up the last minute.
  6. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    I like it, but

    I like the concept, it is a modified accumulation tournament, but not counting total chips but scoring final BR position on each table. This keeps it fair from table to table. I would suggest the scoring be changed though. In golf the lowest score wins, I think the same should be true for this format with 1 point for 1st place and the 6th lowest totals advance to the finals.

    I like the fact the players actually are jockeying for position in each round, but I still see several players with bad first two rounds just packing up and leaving early and killing the scoring for the second day. With less then 6 per table every player would move up to 5th at worst and that could play a factor in the scoring.

    Again I have to address the payroll for your proposal. At 10 tables every hour from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm (8 hours). Thats at least 20 dealers needed plus at least 4 floor staff just on Saturday.

    For Sunday you would need 20 dealers and 4 floor staff again for 6 hours and then one of each for the final table.

    Another problem (BIG PROBLEM) is I doubt there are 120 players willing to pay $500 entry. This is why I suggested limiting this event to only 24 players. I think that might be do able.

    Last, most accumulation formats rarely succeed unless they have a lot of comped entries or a large casino add-on to the prize pool.

    Am not trying to knock this format, I actually like it from a strategic stand point, but I just don't see enough interest for a bigger event. I do like the fact that your showing interest in how to improve tournaments.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
  7. Fredguy

    Fredguy New Member

    Hey Rick, Thanks for the comments.

    First of all, this is not an accumulation or variation of a an accumulation tournament. It is really an exciting new format.

    I can see you marketing this to casinos as something new and exciting. Traditionally, casinos tournaments (except for poker) are extraordinarily
    boring events.

    The casino can promote this as something entirely new. I believe that
    a typical casino will comp, or partially comp their players into such an event.
    Plus I think you have a better chance of enticing a larger number of players from this forum due to the reduced "luck" factor plus the ability to play until the end.

    I disagree that many players will quit after the first day. High finishes on the second day could propel virtually anybody into contention for the final table.
    Plus don't forget the consolation round at the end.

    There are probably many refinements to this concept. But I think the overall structure could revitalize your dream of a blackjack tournamant tour.
  8. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    I like the concept

    Fred don't get me wrong I like the concept of the tournament. You play to win each table in every round or at least stay as close to first as possible to accumulate the best score, (this is why I compared it to an accumulation format).

    I like that format over 4 rounds (just like in a golf tournament) the lowest score win's or in this case the top 6 advance to the final table.

    I think the down side of this format thought is the fact as the rounds progress the tables and dealers stay the same and that means more payroll and expense for the casino.

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