Is Card Counting Cheating?

C

chopper-chic

New Member
Hi, I came here from the American Casino fan site. I was searching for articles on Michael Tata's death, and found the post about the card counter Joe P. who was kicked out of GVR by Matt Sacca. My question is is card counting cheating? Is it illegal? And do casinos regularly ban players for card counting? If not, then why is Joe P. on GVR's "shit list"? Did Joe P get his entry fee back from GVR? I'm not taking sides, but my initial impression that it was not, since the mental aspect is an important part of the game, and you can't regulate what a person does with his mind.
 
Some Answers

__ Taking your second question first, No, card counting is not illegal. (I speak only of gambling venues in the USA; I do not know foreign laws.) So, the answer to question #1 is: No, card counting is not cheating.
__ Nonetheless, depending on the location, casinos can ban card counters. In Nevada, and most other gambling venues, casinos can ban anyone from the premises for card counting; they do do so when they recognize a high-limit gambler or team counting and winning. (Reference the recent MIT counting teams.) In Atlantic City as a result of a legal challenge brought by Ken Uston several decades ago, casinos cannot ban card counters; however the casinos are permitted to employ countermeasures - most commonly shuffling more often to reduce the counters' edge or arbitrarily lowering the limit.
__ I do not know why/if JoeP is on GVR's shit list. I suspect he will be if/when he sues them.
__ Ahhhh, the good old days when the authorities could not regulate what a person does with his mind. Not any more. For example, the concept of a "hate crime" requires that the State Prosecutor knows what was in the mind of the perpetrator. But, . . . this is a topic for another time and another forum; these fora have been remarkably free of political propoganda, and would best remain so.
 
House rules

No counting is not cheating, but it is an advantage to the players who can and do count. Knowing this the casinos will ask a player not to play in their casino anymore and they have the right to refuse anyone.

If they don't want your action then they can and will back you off Blackjack, but usally don't mind you playing the other games. When they are really serious about someone they may even read them the NV trespass law and then they may never return to that property.

What Matt said on national TV was wrong and I believe JoeP has a case against him and GVR. They don't even say anything about the people they arrest on "COPS" only they are innicent until proven guilty and I don't think GVR is a court of law and Matt isn't any judge.

As far as his entry fee, Joe got to play in that tournament. Funny thing was the big Blackjack tournament they were showing wasn't when he got backed off. It was during a bi-weekly BJ tournament, but was edited in as if it was for the VIP BJ tournament.
 
To summarize, if a casino is convinced that they are not likely to be able to beat you in the long run, they have the right to ask you not to play there. A good card counter has the advantage over the casino, so rather than the casino changing the rules of the game so that card counters can't beat it, one alternative is to tell the card counter that his play is no longer welcome.
 
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