Las Vegas Advisor: "The Greatest Tournament Ever"

Question

Will the winner of this also be World Blackjack Champion or will it be Worldwide Blackjack Champion or perhaps something else with "world" in the title?

Reminds me of "professional" wrestling - everybody gets a title of one sort or another.

GM

 

This would be

Worldwide Blackjack Championship for this event.

World Blackjack Tour is GSN.

World Series of Blackjack is also GSN.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they have about four more tours that would offer even more of the players a chance to be on TV and win some money. I woundn't care if it has World in the title or not.

Let me win a $100,000 tournament and you can call me the World champion, the Mirage champion, Luxor Champion, TI champion whatever, a win is a win. The nice thing about the World events is that they are all on TV.

All I have heard is for the passed year is can you help get me on next years show. No I can't, I don't have any pull, all I can do is let you know when and where you can have a chance to show your stuff. We are getting more chances for everyone to be on TV and it shouldn't matter what they call the damn show we should just be thankful we are getting them and the chances to be on them.

I think everyone that was invited to play in this weeks dry-run should thank Anthony Curtis, Russ Hamilton, Max Rubin, Ken Smith, Kenny Einiger, Joe Pane and anyone else that helped promote and advertised that they were hosting this open event. Without these people and their web sites and radio show letting you know about this event a lot of you wouldn't even know about it.

These are also the people that are giving you a chance to meet and perform in front of the producer, director, and production company for a possible future TV apperance on a World event.

 

Rice Bowl Envy

Sounds like someones " Rice Bowl " is empty again.You think he would be saying this if he :joker: was invited to play. The players that have these titles have earned them fair and square.They were not juiced into these titles,or jobs .As long as fellow players have this envy our battle to make Blackjack Tournaments a major TV event will be a difficult task.We all need to pull together and not against each other.

 

Hello, all.

Sorry...no envy at all. My rice bowl overfloweth. But if you want to attack, the adult thing to do is attack my ideas or opinions. If you want to continue to personalize all of this, Joep, I'm your guy; I've taken on bigger and badder than you from the pages of my website, as well as in person so it won't be anything new.

Moving on in an adult manner, whether or not I'm asked to participate in a by-invitation, made-for-TV event that has only the word "world" in common with events like the World Series of Poker means nothing to me. I did not apply to the event LVA is sponsoring or the World Series of Blackjack. I'll just wait until it's an event open to everyone, thank you very much.

But somewhere down the line, BJ tournaments may become more popular and receive attention from mainstream media, which will cause reporters to do some research in order to get the story right. Most likely they'll compare the World Series of Blackjack with the WSOP, but when they do, they'll discover that the "World Champion" of the WSoBJ played against 30 or 40 invitees that involved maybe 60 or 80 hands of Blackjack, as compared to the WSOP Main Event, which had over 5600 competitors and involved 50 or 60 HOURS of play.

I just think any sport that wants to be taken seriously should field a World Champion who gained the title from a genuine competition where anyone who had the desire, $$$ or determination to participate was able to do so. A closed TV set does not "The World" make. Either annointing someone as World Champion or claiming the title for oneself seems to be a bit presumptuous unless and until that title truly has meaning.

"2005 Winner of the World Series of Blackjack"...fine. "Winner of the 2005 Worldwide Poker Tour Championship"...fine. "World Champion" is, in my not-so-humble opinion, premature and just another indication that this industry isn't ready for prime time; television or otherwise.

GM

 

Lets work together

This site is to try and promote blackjack tournaments and inform players. I can see both sides to the previous posts, lets not get into another pissing contest.

I understand GM's point, how can any tournament where the players are only allowed to play by invitation can be called a "World" event.

It is very simple it's the name they selected. Does it mean they are the best in the world? NO, but they were the best in that tournament so they get the title "World Champion".

GSN "World Series of Blackjack" was an invitation only event, however players were allowed to send in their Bios for a chance at being selected for the show and yes there were players from different countries so I can see where world in the title would come into play.

Just stop and look at the blackjack tournaments held in Las Vegas and Tunica (and possibly other location) that have used the term "World Series" or some other phase with "World" in it before.

Anyone that won one of those events had that title. Once again does it make them the best in the "World", NO, only the best in that tournament so they earned the title.

Bottom line is does it really make a difference what the title of the tournament is? I know I go play for the money, I can't remember most of the tournament names I have been in.

As far as envy, I envy everybody that makes it father then me in any event I play in. I don't get mad and I am truly happy for some of the players, but yes I do get envious of players and any of you that don't are not very competitive or honest with your emotions.

 

You ask me to attack your ideas and opinions and not to personalize it. What do you call comparing “professional” wrestling titles to hard earned blackjack titles? When Kenny E earned his title “World Blackjack Champion “he did so by beating some of the top players. This was not a staged act like “professional” wrestling.Your attempt to put the validity of his title in question is a farce ,but then again most of your post are a farce .When did you first realize that poker tournaments last 50- 60 hours and blackjack tournament last a set number of hands. That is the nature of these tournaments .Maybe we should make the Tour De France only a 5 mile race.

Rick is trying to be politically correct in saying he can see both side of this point. Everyone can see that your post at the least is underhanded and an attempt to take away from Kenny E accomplishment.

Who did you beat to become “Game Master” I like to hear that response?

 

Should be Open

I am new at BlackJack Tournaments but it sure seems to me that the "World Series of Blackjack" needs to be open to all who want to participate.

If you select few do want Blackjack Tournaments to become anything close to the WSOP, you need to not only open it up, but encourage people to get involved.

This event will not grow if you continue to use the "select few"

 

Empty "Rice Bowl"

The WSOB was open to all who chose to apply.Only a few players received invitations.If you go back and look at the 40 players that were eventually picked more than a few were new to tournament play.But the winner of the tournament earned his title and it should not be made light of.Remember most of the blackjack tournaments held are not on TV.The TV blackjack tournaments are created for entertainment and for helping attract new players.Not everyone can be picked to play on TV.Selling yourself and your talent to the producers is a sure fire way, trashing the winners is a sure fire way to stay right where you are in a empty "rice bowl "

 

World Champion

I was asked about my last post, do I think Kenny Einiger is "World Champion"?

YES! Without a doubt, he won the World Series of Blackjack II. Just as M.I.T. Mike was the "World Champion" the year before.

I was at the final table when Kenny won, had I won then I would have been "World Champion of Blackjack".

Nobody seems to have a problem saying that the Boston Red Soxs are the "World Champions" of baseball when they won the "World Series" last fall.

Until baseball was opened to Montreal and Toronto every team was from the U.S., does that mean that the winners were not really the "World Champions"? I don't think so.

Besides his win in the World Series, Kenny had a streak of wins and final tables un-match by anyone this passed year and other than Sam Vaughan no one won more money last year than Kenny in tournament play.

 

Wsob

Mine goodness. Where do I begin, or should I even bother.

Gamemaster. The original World Series of Poker, with Brunson, Moss, Slim, Binny and the boys, never given a name, started with Binny inviting about 10 other guys to sit down, put up $10,000 and see who came out on top. Slim did it I believe, more than anybody in the early days and made Esquire for his efforts. He was more well know than the others cause of that.

But as the boys saw how the exposure generated interest they opened it up to all the fish who wanted to plunk down the 10K. It grew from that tiny beginning to the 5,500 plus this year. But remember it was only 500 and some three years ago.

If there is any compareison, it's only that tournament BJ players, who pride themselves in their skillls,and they will adapt them to whatever format, want to compete and in some cases, be able to play.

It's been posted by those more knowledgeable than I how the casinos are going away from the BJ tourneys, for many reasons. People who are good in a different format than regular play , or can't play,want to keep playing the competition. COMPETITION. Just as in poker.

Poker, or hold-em wasn't that popular on tv till they started showing hole cards..But it had been played. Draw, stud were probably more popular all around..But the production, the commentary, etc., blah, blah. Heck whatever year Calif., instituted it's law that draw was a skill, opened(somebody from Calif.) how many card rooms?

The deal here with the BJ tourneys is: Casino's no longer want to do it.

You'll never, or once win "big" at a regular game.

But if you can get in a tourney that has a !00,000 or more pay out, no matter the number of entrants, depending on a reasonable entry fee, and you have reasonable skills, you've got a shot at being that photographed one in a billlion slot player on the special machine.

The TV effort in it's infancy is just that. In it's infancy. Let it develop, let it get tweaked, let it grow. In five years there could be 5,000 people playing 20 to 30 rounds to advance to the finals

And with that many, just as in Hold-em, anybody could win, cause at those large numbers, let's use the poker term "rush," you'd need an uncalcuable number of "rushes" just to get to the final table.

If you like to play cards, if you like to gamble and you're not athletic anymore, there is only poker and bj.

Jimmy Wikke stated bj was america's game. (ARgue poker), but I think he was right and will prove to be prophetic.

Peace...ya'll.

 

Some responses

As I so often do, here's a line-by-line response to joep's comments with his original text in bold:

"You ask me to attack your ideas and opinions and not to personalize it."

It was a suggestion, but I didn't really think you'd follow it.

"What do you call comparing “professional” wrestling titles to hard earned blackjack titles?"

I call it a comparison.

"When Kenny E earned his title “World Blackjack Champion “he did so by beating some of the top players."

Yes, a relative handful; nowhere near the number the person who won the Hilton Million ultimately played against. But is that person the "World Champion"? Noooooo!


"This was not a staged act like “professional” wrestling."

I never said it was. My comparison was that "pro" wrestling has a great many "World Champions" and tournament Blackjack appears to be heading down that road.

"Your attempt to put the validity of his title in question is a farce.."

Ahhh, that would be an opinion, joep, which is probably shared by you and one other person.

"...but then again most of your posts are a farce."

Sticks and stones may break my bones...etc. You know the last time I used that? When I was about 10 or 11 years old. Debating almost anything with you magically transports me back to that time because I feel like I'm arguing with a child. Either make your point or don't. It's really quite simple, you know (but, maybe you just don't know.)


"When did you first realize that poker tournaments last 50- 60 hours and blackjack tournament last a set number of hands. That is the nature of these tournaments."

Who said it has to be that way? You? Why can't a BJ tournament - especially one that determines the "World Champion" - consist of, say, 1000 hands of Blackjack over a period of two or three days. Each participant could get an amount of chips equal to the buy-in (maybe $2500) and the betting limits could start at $5-$200 and be raised every two hours or so, ending at maybe $50-$500. As people bust out, tables are broken down and others take their seats. It can't be run exactly like a poker tournament because the house keeps the losers' chips, but a good long run of BJ play should be what it takes to become a World Champion, not 30 or 40 hands, just because "that is the nature of these tournaments."


"Maybe we should make the Tour De France only a 5 mile race."

Biking is not my sport, but I'll bet there are plenty of 5-mile races held each year. It's just that those races do not determine the World Champion. The race that does determine the World Champion is very, very long - seven days, I believe.

"Rick is trying to be politically correct in saying he can see both side of this point. Everyone can see that your post at the least is underhanded and an attempt to take away from Kenny E accomplishment."

Hey, if Kenny E. can look in the mirror each morning and feel comfortable in saying "World Champion" to his own face, then more power to him. As for your comment that this post is "underhanded", I won't dignify it with a response.

"Who did you beat to become “Game Master” I like to hear that response?"

Who said I had to beat anyone to copyright a name? I think you have the title "GameMaster" confused with "World Blackjack Champion."

GM

 

Some comments on Tx's post

Well, slow night tonight; should be working on a new poker lesson, but cannot let these go. The original post is in bold, with my comments below them:


"I was asked about my last post, do I think Kenny Einiger is "World Champion"?

YES! Without a doubt, he won the World Series of Blackjack II. Just as M.I.T. Mike was the "World Champion" the year before.

I was at the final table when Kenny won, had I won then I would have been "World Champion of Blackjack".

Fine. Three questions:

1. Are they World Champions because the word "world" is in the title?

2. If the Worldwide BJ Tour becomes more popular (as it seems it may), will the winner of that be World Champion? Or will the winner of the WSoBJ be World Champion?

3. Wouldn't it just be better to call MIT Mike, "Winner (or even Champion) of the 2004 World Series of Blackjack" and let whichever event gains the biggest participation by "outsiders" ultimately decide who is the World Champion?

"Nobody seems to have a problem saying that the Boston Red Soxs are the "World Champions" of baseball when they won the "World Series" last fall."

If you're from St. Louis as I am, you definitely have a problem with that. (For those who don't know, Boston swept St. Louis in 4 games.)

"Until baseball was opened to Montreal and Toronto every team was from the U.S., does that mean that the winners were not really the "World Champions"? I don't think so."

But you need to remember that baseball is played in relatively few countries, so the U.S. and Canada is basically "the world". Is the World Cup of soccer a U.S.-only event? Is golf's U.S. Open restricted to only Americans? Is the British Open for just residents of the U.K? Is the Triple Crown of thoroughbred racing open only to horses from the U.S.? Shall I go on?

In other words, the vast majority of "World Champions" are selected by competitions that are ultimately open to competitors from all over the world, not just Las Vegas and by invitation only.

"Besides his win in the World Series, Kenny had a streak of wins and final tables un-match by anyone this passed year and other than Sam Vaughan no one won more money last year than Kenny in tournament play."

Commendable...an enviable record, but until virtually anyone can enter these events, more than just a few people find it hard to hail the winner of the WSoBJ as World Champion.

GM

 

In reply

Here are my 3 answers to GM's questions.

1. Are they World Champions because the word "world" is in the title?

Yes, I believe so.

2. If the Worldwide BJ Tour becomes more popular (as it seems it may), will the winner of that be World Champion? Or will the winner of the WSoBJ be World Champion?

I don't know, I can't predict the future. If I was to guess each winner would be a champion of that named event.

3. Wouldn't it just be better to call MIT Mike, "Winner (or even Champion) of the 2004 World Series of Blackjack" and let whichever event gains the biggest participation by "outsiders" ultimately decide who is the World Champion.

Personally I prefer "World Champion".

Now as far as the rest of your post: I understand you being upset over calling Boston "World Champions" being from St. Louis, however like it or not they are. I don't like it either I had St. Louis to win the series...LOL.

Now saying that only America and Canada and relatively few other countries play baseball is a false statement. Japan, China, Australia, Mexico, Cuba, Russia, Several countries in South America, and Caribbean all play organized ball and those are just the ones I know of.

 

Uneducational

I thought these threads were to be used for learning purposes, not jousting purposes. This continuous squabble about a word "world" is absolutely mind numbing and pointless. If we wanted to, we could go back to the mindless conversation about what entitles someone to call themselves a pro. It's amazing how many grown men can argue about such stupid things such as a word. GameMaster, it sounds as though you need to get that stick out of your butt! As mentioned before anyone could apply for WSOB just as they could for the LVA tournament. Perhaps because of your outstanding personality, you were just too much for them to handle. Grow up already and find a topic that can be discussed intellectually and perhaps others can learn from it!

 

Reluctently Replying

I have been reluctent to post to this thread but have read enough to believe maybe another opinion is due. It seems a lot of the disagreement by members is due to semantics.

1) No one disagrees KennyE has a great resume competing in blackjack tournaments.

2) No one disagrees KennyE won the televised show " World Series of Blackjack"

3) The disagreement seems to be the title, I think his title should be " World Series of Blackjack Champion", which was the tournament he won. There has never been to my knowledge a "World Champion of Blackjack Tournament".

4) A world champion, not a tournament champion, can only be determined if the competion is open to the "World", otherwise WORLD is a hollow word.

5) If the WSOP was not open to the WORLD Chris Moneymaker and the Fozzil would not be WSOP champions, please note they are referred to as WSOP champions not World Poker Champions.

 

Butt Man

Well it looks like Cmonseven has finally figured out how to get Gamemaster to think more clearly. He should just remove the stick from his butt then he would be able to sit down and take a load off his mind . :joker:

 

Once this "World Champion" issue is cleared up, maybe this thread can come to a conclusion about what to do with the Bowl Championship Series.

 

Hi, all.

Thanks for the advice - took the stick out this morning and I can finally sit down. Much better!

But (pun absolutely intended), I'm not finished, although it's getting close. Some of you apparently believe this was all about the World Champion BS, but that's only part of the story. This thread of posts ties in with others here, namely "Cancel another tournament" and "Chip Counting poll". I used those threads and this one to gather information on an article I'm going to present here.

While I hardly consider myself a good journalist, I do at least know how good journalists work. A good journalist doesn't ask a lot of direct questions, but rather, he gives his interviewees the opportunity to talk freely - to really express what's on their minds. That was, at least in part, what I tried to do here.

I do know that the vast majority of visitors to sites like this never post and probably don't read most of the posts anyway. What I'll attempt to do here and which I'll post under a new thread in the Blackjack Tournaments (Land Based Casinos) thread, is to summarize the situation to this point and make some predictions for the future of Blackjack tournaments in general.

The article, which will be presented in segments because it's long and this is a busy weekend for me, discusses a very common conflict that happens in all types of organizations: businesses, social clubs, the military, politics, even families. It's often called "The Old Guard versus The New Breed" or something similar. I'll entitle my article the same way.

So, if you're bored with all of this, just ignore the thread and I won't waste any more of your time. But, if you want to see the future of the Blackjack tournament industry, tune in.

GM