New tournament format, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Ideas to Promote or Improve Tournaments' started by TXtourplayer, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. London Colin

    London Colin Top Member

    Ah, I see

    I had assumed those 80 players would be able to rebuy too, albeit 'rebuy' being the wrong word if they didn't 'buy' in the first place. :)
  2. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member


    Yes and no on that point, if th ecasino awards those players seats in the qualifiers by winning in weekly or bi-weekly events they did pay something in.

    Now if the casino comps these players in they may not have paid, but the casino would have (from the $20,000). But I can see your point, but if that ends up being the only issue we have I can live with it.

    Maybe the casino might even pay for their prefered players re-buys as well, as long as the money is in the prize pool does it matter where it comes from?

    I've actually have had a couple of casinos contact me about this format since posting it up. The kicker is getting them to pony up the $20,000 every 7 weeks for 8 qualifiers plus the championship event ($180,000 total) over 57 weeks.

    Next we have to get them to allow all the players in an "Open" event. and finally have them use the TBJPA rules (or at least some close).

    Should I get an interested casino I will let you know.
  3. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member

    Casino money


    A reasonable assumption, I think, is that the casino would consider it's $20,000 to cover the buy-ins for its comped players, either high rollers or those who won satelites - as long as the value of the comped entries does not exceed the $20,000, we should not have a big problem with that - the money for those players being in the prize pool. If they comp in more players than the $20,000 would cover, then they are making the tourney negative equity, perhaps seriously so, and that would be an issue.

    Other possible issue, if the $20,000 is used to comp players into the third round, using up all the buy-ins for their comped players - that might upset some of the paying players who would want to buyin at that level.

    If these two things can be handled fairly, this could be a good tournament format.
  4. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Sorry on the reply delay,, my laptop has been in the shop.
    RKuczek, not to worry on either case, the $20,000 guarantee is to only be used to comp players in on round 1 only, no re-buys or later rounds will have players comp-ed in (at least not from the guaranteed funds). If the casino wants to comp in some of their high-rollers it will cost them additional funds, which will all go into the prize pool.
  5. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member


    Good intentions...will they survive casino reality? If I was running the casino, I would put some of my best high rollers as deep into the tourney as possible.
  6. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Lots of locals

    At 20,000 the casino may put in up to 80 players in the first round. Surely out of that 80 players they wil. have several still alive in the third round. So I really don't see need for the casino to put more money into the event.
    The casino will be making the $20,000 guarantee from hosting the tournaments, so I doubt they want to pull any out of tbeir pockets.'
  7. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    I really love this idea, and hope it goes over in a big way.

    My biggest fear is that the host casino(s) will want their meathooks into the format or the eligibility, trying to use their $$$ commitment to leverage changes in many of the most important principles involved - rules that favor skilled play, open eligibility, etc.
  8. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Double elimination, if you like...

    I'm not sure all the players understand my concept in the Airline format. You will be allowed to win or purchase 2 seats in both the 8 qualifiers and the championship. You can even win one and purchase another if you like.

    The only thing you cannot do is purchase 2 of the "First Class" $1,000 seats in the same qualifier. You may buy 1 "First Class" entry and either a "Coach" $250 entry or "Business" $400 entry to go along with it. Or 2 "Coach" or 2 Business" class, or 1 of each of these entries.

    We will have the 80 "Economy" class players (local) so it doesn't really matter if the other 96 seats are from 96 players or 48 all with 2 seats. The money will be there either way, just this way players can have two chances to advance (at least until they run into one session in a round).

    I really believe that this format will be successful, we will have the guaranteed money, min. 80 local players, very good shot at $50,000 prize pool for each of the qualifiers, and a nice size championship prize pool as well. Out of town players will enjoy the double entries, knowing they will have at least two chances for there travel plus re-buys if needed.

    And best of all the tournaments don't need a huge turnout to offer big prize money. I'll bet most players would buy two seats to every tournament if we were allowed too. It's like a re-buy safety net for the players and yet you'll still have the re-buy option if needed.

    Hopefully the only problem will be that the seats are sold so fast we are having to turn players away, (man wouldn't that be a great
  9. toolman1

    toolman1 Active Member


    There are as many suggestions as there are active members on this site. Most suggestions posted on this thread and the several other threads related to this subject are not new but rather an adapted re-write of the rules and pay schedules that a given member likes the most. Obviously, you cannot satisfy all players. You must go with your instincts, suggestions on this forum, and your first hand conversations with many players who do not post here. Also you must make the rules appealing to the occasional player to peak his/her interest - and that is the hard part. There are not enough seasoned players alone to make your format a success.

    The Las Vegas Hilton has been successful in attracting a large number of "Average Joes". You might want to mimic some of their strategies. Also they are hosting a $150,000 Grand Finale on December 3, 2009 for the participants of their $100,000 tournaments in 2009. I posted a Calendar update for that event. You might want to take a look.


    Keep it simple. Anything more complex than a 6th grader can understand will mean less players.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  10. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Keeping it simple

    I believe that the entry fee levels for the Airline format are lower then could be, which makes them a more positive EV. This is one of the reasons I believe this format will work. The value for the players and of course the higher entry fee the better the value.

    I want the higher value entry fees to sell out first, this brings the prize poll up and makes it more attractive to more players.

    Plus the fact that less than 100 players will be able to enter the event by buying in (all pay levels combine). Then add in that players can enter twice I can see these tournament selling out and selling out fast.

    Once the tournament is sold out you'll be looking at either $50,000 event with an end of the year Championship or up to $77,000 (including re-buys) for a one-time event.

    This format is designed to sellout fast which means two things:
    1) Players will know the prize money will be there + any and all re-buys.
    2) Players need to get their entries in early or be left out.

    As I stated above and London Colin, Toolman, Ken and S. Yama have all pointed out the entry fees are lower then they could be, but lets get the tournaments started and at a great entry fee for limited players and if it takes off we can adjust it next year.

    Actually I like the cheaper entry fees, but I do have a formula which will allow more players in should the tournament succeed and we need to expand them next year.


  11. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    This part of the airline format concerns me a great deal. It is complicated, and this will turn off some players. If this format is to be used, I think the format needs to be very clearly explained, maybe with a big chart to show the levels etc.

    Bottom line, I think toolman1 is right. Complexity is a problem.
  12. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    How the Airline Format works

    I’ll try and explain the Airline Format tournament, it will consist of 5 Rounds and Re-buys. Other then the unique entry format and double entries allowed basic tournament rules and format apply.


    Round I: up to 144 players, 24 tables of 6 players with the top 2 at each table advancing to Round II.

    Re-buy's: up to 144 players, 24 tables of 6 players with the top 2 at each table advancing to Round II.

    Round II: 108 players, 18 tables of 6 players with the top 2 at each table advancing to Round VI.

    Round III: 54 players, 9 tables of 6 players with the top 2 at each table advancing to Round IV.

    Round IV: 18 players, 3 tables of 6 players with the top 2 at each table advancing to Round V.

    Round V: 6 players - Final table.

    The Rounds are just like any normal elimination tournament; the only difference is which level (Round/Class) the players wish to enter.

    Entry Classes

    Economy Class:(Round I) Locals win there way in through weekly tournaments or comp-ed players. Limited to max. 80 players.

    Coach Class: (Round I) Open entry at $250.00 per player. Limited to max. 72 players.

    Re-Buys: Open to both non-advancing Economy and Coach Class players. Limited to max. 144 re-buys total.

    Business Class: (Round II) Open entry at $400.00 per player. Limited to max. 10 players.

    First Class: (Round III) Open entry at $1,000 per player. Limited to a max. 17 players.

    Modified Double Elimination:

    Another twist is each player may enter twice, allowing them two seats, (only one per session). Players with two entries will be allowed to play through out the tournament, until only one session is offered in the Round, normally Round VI (semifinals).

    Should a player end up with both seats still alive in the semifinals, both seats will be at the same table and one seat must be forfeited. Only one seat allowed in the same session. In this case the player forfeiting the seat will be playing on a table of only 5 players.

    *Note: Only 1 First Class entry ($1,000) will be allowed per player/per tournament.

    Wild Cards: 2 Wild cards will be awarded into Round II and 1 Wild card awarded into Round III.

    I hope this simplified the format and how it will work.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  13. deltaduke

    deltaduke Active Member

    needs editing

    Better do some edititing here. I don't see where round II is playing and how to advance to round III. Also you have a round VI which I think you mean IV.
    Is round 2 the rebuy round?
  14. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member


    Yea I kinda messed that up, but it is corrected now, Thanks Deltaduke.
  15. toolman1

    toolman1 Active Member

    I've never quite understood why a person would enter twice. Is there a discount for this? Is that 2 entries for the same round but different sessions or is it 2 different rounds?
  16. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Like a double elimination

    Entering twice is up to each player. It is like a double elimination, but only if they choose to do so.

    The players may choose when they play, either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Rounds, however only one entry seat into Round III.

    If a player has two seats in a round, he/she will simply play in different sessions and if they continue to advance will play in different sessions until the round only offers one session (normally in the semifinals).

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