Online gambling bill hits snags in Congress

Cold Turkey in 2 weeks ?

Today's headlines in Europe talk about Party Gaming, other online Gaming companies and Neteller ceasing operations in the US if President Bush signs the anti-gaming bill. Can this be??:flame: :flame: :flame:
Being from Canada, I remain completely confused as to how a great country like the US can so arbitrarily remove it's citizens from such basic freedom of choice i.e. gambling in land based casinos vs online.

 

"No more bets please"

Didn't see those particular headlines, but yes it certainly can be. I did hear that William Hill has already stopped taking any bets from US customers, and apparently they are not alone -

pokernews.com
BBC

Can't really blame the executives for taking steps to avoid getting arrested next time they touch down in the US.

 

Here's the full link:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/02/new...ongress.reut/index.htm?postversion=2006100209

This is an interesting tidbit - final paragraph of the article:

 

Because this country is run by religious freaks that like to impose their morals on the rest of the country...and the world.

 

Bill:

Hmmm, or get my money out? Better hurry, huh?

 

I have to take exception to a lot of what has been posted on this site regarding the new legislation. I'm as frustrated with it as anybody on this site, but I think lobbing insults at certain politicians and/or parties is not the answer. For the most part, people on this forum keep their political, philosophical and ideological viewpoints to themselves, and rightly so, because that's not what this forum is about. But it now seems like many people are ready to lynch the politicians, particularly the Republicans, who are behind the legislation.

It's kind of confusing to me how otherwise logical, thinking people would have these types of knee-jerk emotional reactions to something that, in the grand scheme of things, is not that important. (Although I realize the industry is a livelihood for many people, and that there are jobs at stake.)

Since most of the banter regarding this issue targets Republicans, let me say this. If you were a die-hard Democrat before, then march on...your mind probably hasn't been changed one bit. But if you are one of the few that I've read, who claim to have formerly been a Republican, but now are not, based on this action, then please take a step back and examine how shallow that reaction is.

By denouncing the GOP, you're de facto willing to hand the keys to the party that sticks its hands down your pockets every chance it gets, by way of new taxes...the party that has absolutely no regard for many of your personal liberties, including some supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution...and the party that thinks securing our borders and hunting down Islamo-Fascist terrorists should be a low priority...all because you're losing internet gambling. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

And since reference has been made to this, let me also say that I think everyone on this forum knows that Democrats are just as susceptible to sex scandal, pedophilia, impropriety and the like as the Republicans are. In my opinion, bringing that issue into the discussion only serves to fuel more emotional backlash, and is not helpful to the problem at all.

I'd be curious to know who on this board thinks that putting Democrats in power will suddenly bring back internet gambling. I, for one, am not willing to risk having my taxes jacked up or my country attacked by terrorists again, just for the sake of getting even with the people who took away my internet gambling.

One more side note, as a response to AceDonovan's comment: "Because this country is run by religious freaks that like to impose their morals on the rest of the country...and the world." That is a tired argument that adds no value to the discussion at all. Every law that has ever been passed, decreed, or dictated, in every society in the history of mankind, imposes a moral on someone else. Incidentally, if that was really the motivation, then we would see efforts to ban sales of cigarettes, alcohol, and pornography as well. But those efforts are almost non-existent. Clearly, this action is about the B&M casino lobby, and money for politicians.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not defending the GOP, or this legislation. All I'm saying is if your ideology was conservative before, don't throw it all away over this. There's too much at stake.

I think the most helpful thing we can do right now for our cause is to work toward getting the legislation overturned. The Poker Players' Alliance is campaigning to have an exception added for poker, based on the fact that it is a game of skill. The same could be said of tournament blackjack, and this is how we should be carrying on the fight, not by lobbing insults.

I realize this will probably not sit well with many of you, but hopefully some of you will be clear-minded enough to see my point.

 

No politics, No religion

While i agree that perhaps this board is not the best place to discuss issues such as these, my bleeding-heart liberal mindset cannot let this false attempt at "reasoned" opinion pass unabated.

First off, it alarms me how casually you tell people not to freak out about this new law, while conceding:
"I realize the industry is a livelihood for many people, and that there are jobs at stake"

EXACTLY. I and many other professionals who spend their time on this site derive the majority (if not all) of their livelihoods from the gaming industry. How would you feel if your government made it illegal for you to pursue your chosen profession? Moreover, what if they told you that what you do for a living is morally reprehensible and that you were effectively responsible for the destruction of the American family? Because this is what we are being told on this issue.

I also find it laughable that you can even begin to defend the Republicans in this matter; the fact is, a Republican controlled Congress is DIRECTLY responsible for not only the inclusion of this completely unrelated legislation on a Port Security Bill, but has chosen to do it in the most underhanded of ways, squashing any form of debate on the subject or even a vote on the inclusion of the gaming provision whatsoever. This smacks of the worst form of neo-fascism we have seen in decades.


Next you make several incredibly inaccurate, insulting, and insane comments about the Democratic party:

"the party that has absolutely no regard for many of your personal liberties"
-Democrats do not try to legislate morality or tell people who they can love, marry, or do in the privacy of their homes, as Republicans continually insist on doing. Rather, they constantly take heat for defending unpopular lifestyles and choices against the will of a sometimes overzealous majority -- what our Constitution was founded on, and something Republicans have clearly forgotten.

"[the party that will get] my country attacked by terrorists again"
-Give me a fucking break, right here & now. This administration has brilliantly displayed, time and again, an absolutely mind-boggling level of ineptitude and incompetance in just about every single matter relating to every aspect of our security in the world -- from reading to a kindergarten class while our country was under attack, to forcing incorrect intelligence into the spotlight as a justification to attack the WRONG country, to choosing to ignore just about every international decision of the WTO and UN concerning these issues while expecting the rest of the world to listen up, to lying to the American public time and again concerning progress on the war and then having the audacity to award MEDALS to those responsible for the deceit and incompetence rather than firing them.


And we wanted to impeach a guy for lying over a BLOWJOB while in office? The level of hypocrisy, mass discrimination, and international irresponsibility involved in this issue & this administration makes me & all other rational, intelligent people in our country sick to our stomachs and more terrified of our own government than we are of terrorists. The fact is, we are much less safe today than we were 5 years ago, and we have George W. Bush & the Republican party who has blindly rubberstamped each and every insane decision that has been made to blame for this.

So, you're right, there are much bigger things at stake here, but this is a blackjack tournament website and that is why the responses you have seen thus far have confined themselves solely to this issue. If you'd like to continue, we can heed Londin Colin's suggestion & take this over to my website, where later in the week you will find my next blog entry, entitled: "Fuckin' Republicans" Any questions?

-hd.

 

WTG Hollywood

Wow. Nice passionate articulation.

 

stop this crap!

This site should not be used to debate politics or religion. This is a Blackjack Tournament site. Please lets keep it that way.

tgun

 

hummm....

I think that the underlying issue is the right to play BJT online, no?

 

Seems appropritae to me

Considering politics and religion are the forces that are limiting our resources to do what we come here to talk about, I would agree that it's quite pertinent.

 

tgun:

Sorry: I'd normally agree. But this sneaky legislation made this site political.
It effects every one of us who posts or reads here.

It's always whose ox is being goured and this time it's ours. If we were brick and mortor retailers, we'd been lobbying for the implementation of sales tax on internet purchases. Funny, nothin done about that. Though it has been debated extensively.

The gaming thing, while it may have been boiling in somebody's head and I've posted who I think the culprits are, it did come up rather quickly and surprise, surprise got injected into a no fail bill, at the last minute.

Yeah I know that's kind of SOP, but not on something of this magnitude. Heck budget bills have been held up or vetoed, cause of some of the unrelated add-ons. Promoting, stirring more debate about the "add-on" legislation.

Civil political debate went out the window before the British Parliment was established. The only way to stir folks from their apathy is to stir their kettle with some kefelta fish.

If enough of us want it changed we have to say, to do, to act. Otherwise, we can't complain about taking part in what the Federal Government has already labled as illegal.

 

Dave,

Well said.

UtVolfan..

Im am Independent and I think both parties rarely serve our country properly.

I understand that we have had poor choises ..........

But where is your head??? Lets me take a wild guess ...you have no child, relative , friend serving in Iraq? We are far from safe ...in fact we are hated more in this world then probably any other time in history...why is this you suppose?

Are you forgetting the billions of tax dollars being spent in Iraq ?? Are we safer...are they better off? Wheres Osama? We lost liberties under George Bush that would have the forefathers rolling in their graves...meanwhile Dick Chenny makes millions per year on stock held in trust ...millions based on the continuation of the war in Iraq....

The Rebubs have as ass deep in alligators...and the concern is gay marrage, and internet gambling...???? Not about Hey maybe we should drain this swamp"...Oh no not New Orleans...another fine job..


I think they should activate the draft...but this time around...( I was a drafted Vietnam Vet BTW) they shoud call up a list of every son and daughter of Bush supporters...I am a betting man and I bet sure as hell that then your story would change....baby with the bath water indeed!

Iraq is worse off today....we are not one bit safer because of that rather its increased spending on security and improved inteligence. Iraq has drained limited resources sorely needed for increased security...so it has hurt rather help our situation....Now Bush sits ready to pull the tricker on Iran...that will really help us...

But this is certainly beyond this sites scope ....the issue remains that the Repub controlled everything has not kept out of my life...they have issue with my private life like never before....they can monitor my phone w/o court order.....right to privacy issue...they want to control my wifes womb....and now they are concerned about my leisure activity...which is none of their fuk*&%^ business.

Nothing will ever change your narrow view...well maybe your son being killed in Iraq might... but he will never go..so its a waste to address you.

Clinton did more to get Bin Laden then Bush has done to date....but we got Sadamm by the balls....AND THATs IMPORTANT WHY?

I would be nice if internet gambling were the only issue...its small and unimportant in the big picture....whats scarry is that nothing is being learned...just partisan BS and our children being killed in a usless war...I have some experience with that...do you? BTW...Bush was dodgeing the draft for that one...oh wait...he was "serving" in the reserves...while he was working hard to maintain his D+ - C - average.

Gimme a freakin break.

 

Let's see the Demo's got us into WW1 and WW11 (lend-lease is not remaining neutral)
JFK sent the first fighting troops to Vietnam (Ike had 56 advisors there not fighting, just advising)
The Republicans started The War Of Northern Aggression (better known as the Civil War)
Oh Hell they have all screwed up so let's just dig up LBJ, everybody knew he was crooked but atleast smart enough to cover his tracks.

 

AMEN,...Amen

 

politics

if we're going to talk politics -

lets remember that under the Bush administration - the wealth and income gaps between the richest and poorest, the richest and middle class, and the very richest and the less richest, have grown faster than in any industrialized nation at any time in history, and are the largest ever seen in any industrialized nation ever - also - under Bush - we have seen the greatest transfer of wealth and income - from everyone else to the ultra rich - that has ever occurred in an industrialized nation - we are literally talking about trillions of dollars in assets and income lost by the poor, the working class and the middle class and gained by the ultra rich and large corporations - this transfer of wealth and its effect on the income distribution has been very well documented -

the Bush administration is solely dedicated to stealing as much wealth from the American people and transferring it to the ultra rich and giant corporations as possible - as fast as possible - it has no other reason for being and no other purpose - all its activities are dedicated to this purpose - well - some are dedicated to imposing tyrranical controls on the American people - they can now kidnap and torture any person anywhere at anytime in total secrecy without warrant, cause, or judicial review - my - that sure makes me feel more secure - but that's just so they can steal more money faster -

the 'moral' issues they promote - such as anti-abortion and anti-internet gambling - are just the cost of keeping the fanatical psuedo-christian militant right in their pockets so they can keep political control - so they can steal more of our wealth - and the psuedo-christian fanatics are dumb enough and hate-filled enough - to suck into this unholy alliance -

all this of course is compounded by the fact that they are probably the most incompetant administrators ever to run our government - I work with government agencies - on a very regular and close basis - and it is astonishing how badly the Bush administration has totally politicized, destroyed, and distorted the government bureaucracy ( which was bad enough to start with) - most government agencies are simply non-functional today - we saw it in FEMA during Katrina - but many others are just as bad -

the Democrats aren't much better - but at least they aren't as bad as the Bush republicans - may be the lesser of two evils - but definitely the lesser evil -

Chavez was right -

 

I retired from Govt. service in 1990, if someone asked me what I did I said as little as possible and if I wanted to work I would go out and get a real job. Govt. service has never changed and never will. America love or leave it because all politicians are the same reguardless of party (some even jump back and forth) they have all screwed up and the only time I saw people leaving was to keep from joining me in Vietnam. But one president did make a good statement "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

 

Bush Bashing....

In this country....if you don't approve of government policies, you express this at the polls, not in blackjack forums. Two years ago, Bush was elected president. Two years from now, we will elect someone else.

Whoever monitors the posts on this forum should delete any and all political
ranting. It is not appropriate here.

By the way, my personal opinion is that on line gampling should be banned, until such time as it can be regulated, and taxed.

 

If you don't like the political posts....

... or any posts for that matter, don't read 'em!

Simple as that!

Cheers

Reachy