Rights Taken Away

Discussion in 'Sidewalk Cafe' started by pokernut, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

  2. Reachy

    Reachy New Member


    What's a gun?


  3. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

    It is what your Bobbies and Scotland Yard can occasionally check out from a weapons depository for a specific purpose.
  4. Reachy

    Reachy New Member


    Do you have a gun pokernut? Anybody else have one? If you do what sort of gun do you have? Why do you have one? Have you shot anybody? (bet joep has :eek: ) Does a gun make you feel safer? Are you going to shoot me?

    I'm genuinely interested coming as I do from a country without a gun culture like yours.


  5. toolman1

    toolman1 Active Member

    Reachy's safety


    Your are quite possibly opening Pandora's Box with your questions. I'll leave most of your questions to the firearm enthusiasts. However, I will answer one of your questions:
    We would not shoot our main connection to the European community. :) However, if you bring Flat Eric to America, well, let's just say I can't be responsible for his (it's) safety.:laugh:
  6. Reachy

    Reachy New Member


    I can imagine it's an issue that attracts a wide range of views and emotions. Pokernut obviously knows that so I thought I'd get in first and ask some very simple and, what probably sounds to a lot of you as naive questions.

    I actually have come into contact with firearms more often than the average UK citizen I suspect. I used to live and work very near to The Old Bailey and there would often be highly armed police marksmen lurking in doorways and street corners when there was a big case on. In addition what was called the "Ring of Steel" was positioned just up the road from me. This was put in place after a series of IRA bombings on the financial district of London (one of which I witnessed as it happened), what we call the Square Mile, and amounted to a series of road blocks on all the roads leading in. Again police marksmen were often lurking in doorways, behind vans etc.

    Also I used to be a nurse and had occasion to be involved in a number of procedures on very serious criminals, all of which needed to be under armed-guard.

    As for Flat Eric, as you know we have now parted ways. Have you noticed my new friend? He's known as The Bear and if you didn't like Flat Eric I KNOW you will hate The Bear!


  7. happybunnytrix

    happybunnytrix New Member

    Yes.....he is rather creepy.
  8. ANDY 956

    ANDY 956 Member

    This could be tough?

    Hey Reachy.

    You are a braver man than me for raising the issue of gun control on an American Webb site.

    Can I just say that it has been a pleasure knowing you, and good luck in your future endeavours?

    Andy :laugh:

    Ps Joep has been seen on television shooting through aces on playing cards and he still maintains that this was not “doctored” for the show.
  9. ANDY 956

    ANDY 956 Member


    Nice try pokernut.

    Even we are not that stupid to take the bait.

    Andy :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2006
  10. toolman1

    toolman1 Active Member

    We want Flat Eric back

    All I can say is BRING BACK FLAT ERIC. Sometime one doesn't realize that things can indeed get worse. :mad:
  11. Reachy

    Reachy New Member

    What did I miss?

    Went to bed too early obviously. It looks like a post or two was removed/edited in my absence. As I have said I am genuinely interested in the US perspective on US gun culture and this is not a facetious post. If anybody would like to fill me in on what has been removed please feel free to PM me the gist or in fact repeat it. I don't mind if it's critical of me personally or offensive either.


    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  12. Reachy

    Reachy New Member

    not an invite...

    ...to send insults to me by PM though!!! :D



    Ps. None recieved yet though!
  13. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

  14. Reachy

    Reachy New Member

    One side


    Thanks for the link but that is only one side of the argument. What are the others?

    What is popular opinion on gun control in the US at the moment? If a survey of the general population were to be carried out what %age would be in favour of gun control like we have in the UK (See below for some idea about what it's like in the UK)?

    In the UK we can be pretty sure that we are not going to come across someone with a gun in our everyday life, be it a policeman or a member of the public. However gun crime is on the increase and the police and home office are concerned. Since the Eastern Bloc collapsed there has been a flood of weapons into the UK and it is apparently fairly easy to get hold of an AK47 for example. Also it would seem that some of our youth have been influenced by the US gun culture in particular in relation to certain sections of the hip hop community and gangsta rap.

    I don't believe the argument for gun control is clear cut however. You only have to look at Switzerland to see an apparent anomaly. They have amongst the highest ownership of guns in the world and yet their murder rate is one of the lowest. How does that work then?

    How to obtain a Firearms Certificate

    The advice given here is general, but is believed to be correct as of December 2003, it will be updated as required by changes to the law.

    A Firearms Certificate (FAC) is required before you can purchase, or posses any firearm, ammunition, or certain parts of a firearm, e.g. a spare barrel. It is important that any prospective applicant reads fully the section on Gun Law before attempting to apply.

    There are two main ways that civilians can obtain an FAC:

    a) if they can demonstrate that they have shooting rights over suitable land.

    b) if they can demonstrate membership of a target shooting club, such as Marple Rifle and Pistol Club (MRPC).

    What follows assumes membership of a target shooting club.

    In order to become a full member of MRPC a prospective member must join the club as a probationary member and complete a minimum of 18 visits in a 6 month time period. To join the club it is necessary to both pay the subscription fee and complete an application form giving the names and addresses of two referees who have known the applicant for at least two years. A part of the application includes a signed declaration that the applicant is not debarred from firearms use or possession. After the end of this probationary period, subject to satisfactory behavior and no adverse reports from any source, membership will be confirmed at the next committee meeting.

    After membership has been confirmed an FAC can be applied for. The Police will not entertain any application that is not confirmed by the club secretary, so it is a waste of time trying before full membership is granted.

    When the FAC application is is received by the police (you get the form from them) along with the necessary fee, they will make an appointment with you to come and inspect your home and security arrangements for storing the firearms and ammunition.

    When applying for the FAC it is worth while specifying more guns than you need, this is to allow the purchase of a new gun, before the sale of an old gun has gone through. There is no limit as to the number of guns or quantity of ammunition you can ask for, but the more you want, the more security the police may insist on before granting the FAC.

    Basically they will expect a steel cabinet of at least 16 swg bolted to the floor and / or wall and secured with 5 lever lock(s). Connection to an alarm would be a bonus and in some locations may be a requirement. If your premises has shared access, for example if it is in a block of flats, the requirements may be more stringent.

    It is worth remembering that unless anyone else living at your address has an FAC listing your guns, then that person cannot legally handle them even in the home.

    If you are intending to reload centrefire ammunition, rather surprisingly you do not need an FAC to buy any of the components. An FAC is only needed to make and keep assembled ammunition. You must specify on your application how many rounds you intend to have at any one time. It is not necessary to enter any details of your home reloaded ammunition, or how many times you reload. The only requirement is that you do not exceed your maximum holding in your specified calibres at any one time.

    A part of the application form is to specify the names and addresses of two referees that are willing to support your application for an FAC. There are restrictions as to who can act as a referee, family members being barred as is anyone with a criminal record. It is not possible to have your application supported by two members of your club, you must find independent referees who are willing to complete a questionnaire about you and return it directly to the police (so that you cannot see what they have written).

    The best advice to any new FAC applicant is to ask existing members for advice before filling out the application form.

    It is illegal to own a handgun unless it is an antique and not used for shooting or used for vermin control!


  15. noman

    noman Top Member

    Guns(and Roses) and Reachy

    Gosh almighty. Why don't you ask how the universe was created.

    Since pitch forks, rocks and sling shots would not have been enough in the years 1776 to 1779 to turn back the most powerful Army in the world, guns have been a US icon. You needed them to hunt game to eat. You needed them to deter the pedaphiles. You needed them to roust the Indians.

    Now the story goes, if the US government slips to the dark side, only citizens with guns can turn the tide, against tanks, armored humvees, F-14's or newer denominations. That's why we allow folks to own Ak-47's and other such armament.

    It was written into the bill of rights and that's okay. Still today. Nothing wrong with owning guns, or being a gun collector. But, as the story goes, why does anyone need a Saturday Night Special or a single shot Raskolinkov.

    we're back to the ol Wild Wild West, where everyone wore a gun, just like they wore pants. And if you got it, you just might use it. Road rage. Didn't like the way your neighbor cut your haf of the yard, well hell, you've got a gun. Cause the greatest line ever is don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

    You'll pry my gun from my dead hands.

    Legally, we get into interpertations of what "well maintained militia" means, though other than in remote areas of Michigan, Idaho and Wyoming, I don't believe we have any "well" maintained militias.

    In the US it is a RIGHT to own and posses "a GUN" But with any right, there comes responsibility. And that is lacking in many areas of our universal society.
  16. bahoozle

    bahoozle Member

    Reach-meister, you need to tweak your question a bit. You should be asking, "How many guns do you own?". Particularly of those that live in the Southern US.

    They do come in useful for home defense against various forms of venomous snakes that tend to frequent my yard this time of year.
    < http://www.agfc.state.ar.us/critters/wildlife_snake.html >

    Although I do typically prefer wailing at them with a garden hoe or hedge clippers, if I can shoot one from a distance and avoid throwing my back out, I'll happily do it!
  17. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

    I prefer my 410 guage shotgun for snakes and my 12 guage shotgun, AR-15 rifle, 30-06 rifle , 45 caliber pistol, 9mm pistol, 38 revolver, a 410/45 long colt
    derrimger and an antique Colt revolver made in 1886 for 2 legged snakes. Don't forget the saying "if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns".
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  18. Reachy

    Reachy New Member

    have gun

    It's a Walther P99 as carried by James Bond.



    Ps. Does it count if it's a soft-air gun?
  19. tgun

    tgun Member


    A few ideas:

    The U.S. Constitution gives it's citizens the "Right" to bear arms.

    I believe in a universal "Right" of self defense, which includes one's family.

    No government can guarantee absolute individual protection.

    It's a worn out slogan, but true, "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

    The rate of gun crimes in states that have adopted legal carry permits, have dropped.

    There are many cases of armed citizens preventing crime.

  20. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

    The best police departments in world can not prevent crime they can only respond to it. It is up to the individual to protect his own.

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