One thing about BJT that I think people find discouraging is that with regular BJ all they have to do is beat the dealer. Now with TBJ you can beat the dealer and still lose, or that 12% full swing. Several things that I've thought about that could help the game are: Play the game as a pitch game with cards down (similar to poker with poker cams) Let the first card out be the dealers UP card - THEN allow players to place their bets Tucking cards regardless of a bust or not - that would give the game a more "psychological component" that people find attrative in poker Thoughts?
I would say a big YES on the pitch game face down from 1 or 2 decks. If you could ever bust your hand and tuck it. Thats it, I quit.
Bust's and BJ's turned up! On pitch games dealt face down, any player with a bust hand or blackjack is suppose to flip over their hand at immediately. On the blackjack, failure to do so turns the hand into just twenty-one. I'm not sure what the penalty is for tucking a bust hand. I would guess the first time a warning, a second time X number of chips, and a third time disqualification. Now as far as FGK's idea, I love him thinking outside of the box, however I personally hate changing the true nature of the game. If we get to start seeing dealers up cards before we bet it really isn't blackjack anymore. Still all and all, FGK is at least trying to create positive ideas to help blackjack tournaments, with this type of posting and feedback we may just stumble on a really good idea that both the casinos and players would agree on.
EXACTLY MY POINT When I mentioned earlier that people weren't "thinking outside the box" - your response is what I was alluding to. TBJT's aren't flourishing are they? If you think that making a 10 chip stack rule or having surrender cards will convince that 19-21 year old college kid who's playing poker and thinks he's a know it all to come over and play TBJ - who are you kidding? If you think that making progressive min bets and "turbo" games will convince the 50-year old 2x/year guy to play in a TBJT - who are you kidding? That's why EBJ was formed - to create something that hadn't existed a bleding of the best of BJ & poker. In my opinion they didn't go far enough. Rick you state you keep going back to your base of players - obviously your old time friends and TBJ players - great I respect that but those players are probably .0001% of people in a casino. What about the other 99.9999%? Doing the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result - well that's a definition for something - any takers? Why not deal TBJ pitch and face down? Why not use single deck? Why not let players bet, see the dealers up card and bet again?
Most perfer multi-deck shoe games Most players perfer the multi-deck shoe games over a single deck event. Reason they feel they have a better chance against the better players, they feel it levels the playing field so to say, and it actually does. Now pitch games are fun, I really enjoy them and I have thought about going to the double deck games. The 10 stack of chips and surrender cards weren't about trying to draw in more players, but improve on the exsisting events. I think there are more then enough tournament players out there to allow us to host a very nice monthly qualifying event with a big year end championship. It's not about the format, but the guarantee prize money and getting the proper marketing and advertising for the event. With the correct advertising and marketing, we can not only bring in current tournament players, but start attracting new players as well. I'm sure you'll agree with me on this, since you have been saying this for a while now.
I "doubt" this Rick. Ok then lets us a CSM to really level the playing field ok? NOT (that was sarcasm - I would personally NOT do a BJT with CSM - with the exception of a cruise ship because frankly that's all they have! So what's holding you back? Less supplies on the table! Agreed. They are an enhancement to the existing rules/conditions. However it is attracting new blood to the game - ORdesigned a BJT that is profitable for all involved with usually means HIGH entry fees and lesser players - see Laughlin event for an example. What are YOU smoking? More than enough tournaments? Where and when? NOW you're preaching to the choir. Get a sponsor for a 2 year quartly deal going with a guarentee of 50,000 per tourney. The MOST anyone could lose is 400,000 and in the corporate world - peanuts. Ask Harraha's about that. Now have players pay for Mulligans, rebuys and here's the BEST part - comp their rooms. Ever see that new commercial for the phone company of the dork calling his wife from Vegas where he says everyone is so nice and he learned to "double down"? Provide for free rooms and we'll get the donkey's, excuse me I mean players, to come out.
The reason I would absolutely hate players being able to tuck a busted hand is it isnt pure, it isnt blackjack. How in the heck am I going to judge what to do on my hand if I cant see the action in front of me? With this tuck game maybe the players should hold the card like 5 card poker and keep a straight face, now that would be good TV. I have played 3 casinos where a BJ can be tucked. This actually seems to add a bluff strategy. These games must be 2:1 bj pay. I have a hard time believing a hand held game would be less popular than a shoe. WE even had a vote here and the double deck won by a nice margin I remember.
Barney - THAT'S MY POINT. It is my personal opinion that poker players all feel they have an advantage because they can "read" the other players. With a "traditional", "conventional", "pure" BJT you have to be much more math oriented in order to calcuate the "best bet". It is my opinion that for the average player (read ploppy) they are intimdated by the counting and calculating. Heck most of the time they can't even get BS right. Now make that person calculate how much they need to get past BR2 and what do you get? OVERLOAD! Of course double deck is preferred to a shoe game. The rationale for a shoe is there is less shuffling and it goes "faster". Hey don't they shuffle after each hand in poker? Yeah! Go to a single deck, face down and NOW you'll see the poker players come over. On top of that try THIS: 1. Let players place their bet 2. Deal all players their first card and dealers first card - put the dealers card UP 2. Let all players bet again 3. Deal 2nd players card 4. Let players bet AGAIN this bet can't be greater than their original bet and surrender is allowed at this point. 5. Dealer checks for BJ 6. Continue with conventional BJ with players able to tuck cards.
Sounds interesting. I'd try about any format once esp if it will get more and profitable tournaments. Most of the mini's in Washington are double deck, face down. Can't tuck a busted hand and if you tuck a bj, it's even money. At Viejas there is an interesting twist. Each player gets 20 chips--all identical. BJ 2-1, no surrender, so no need for any other denominations. Makes 21 hands go fast once you adjust your mindset accordingly.
Just picking out one item that's been mentioned..... In a pitch TBJ, why shouldn't you be able to tuck a BJ without penalty? "Because it's always been that way" or "because that's how the tables are dealt" are not good answers. If you have J-A, and I have K-K, we both have very good non-busted hands, yet you have to expose your cards and I don't. Allowing tucked BJ's does add an element of strategy to the game.
By flipping blackjack, allows the other players a chance to DD or split if needed. It wouldn't be fair to the other players not expose a BJ when it was your turn. That would be like DD without having to flip your cards over. Now you could just tuck your BJ if the situation came up where, just winning or pushing the hand was all you needed, but it would only pay like a 21 and no 3 to 2.
Tucked BJs is just another "carnival" variance from TBJPA like rules. I think all the regular BJTs in Laughlin use it or in the case of Edgewater used it with a exception of Pioneer which uses 2:1 pay but no tuck. I can tell you it does add an element of bluff and surprise in games. My last game at the Aquarius I had the game locked but my nearest competitor, whom I had out-bet at last hand, BJed. I had a 9 to dealer up 9 and needed to double to cover the BJ. Dealer busted. Carnival, yes. But the spectators and table gave a real OH MY GOD! I wanted to cry LOL.
tucked bj A few years back a couple of the local casinos offered 2d pitch tournament games. One casino allowed tucking a bj, the other did not. It seemed that allowing one to tuck a bj offered more of a general interest than not. Is it fair? Maybe , maybe not. I know from my perspective that tucking the bj was far more interesting as I was allowed to do so for a considerable win.
dd pitch game I don,t see where exposing a bj in dd pitch games of a tournament should be required or paid less than normal. We only expose the bj in regular games to speed up the game. To my kwowledge there is no penality for tucking a bj in a regular game. On the other hand, a tucked bj in a tourn. can be a powerful tool. Imagine that you are sitting at the final table of a 100000 bj tourn. You receive a bj and are assured of a win unless other players can double and beat you. Are you going to be a good sport and show your bj. Of course not! It could be that other players have bj but that mystique is what is so interesting about this game and there are times when that tucked bj is comparable to having "the nuts" in poker. It is an interesting concept and one worth pursuing.
Understood. My point was that allowing tucked BJ's adds another level of strategy. Keeping DD cards hidden would be similar. If everyone would be allowed to do it, then I just don't see the unfairness to the other players. Just bumping the discusssion here, that's all. IMHO, any unbusted hand could be allowed to be kept hidden. And that's thinking outside the box!
There we go guys/gals - looking at the POSITIVE - instead of the "well that's the way we've always don it in the past" Barney you hit the nail on the head - get spectators involved, get some excitement and maybe, just maybe, those spectators might decide to get involved. Please, just please, don't call it a carnival variation as it demeans something that you don't like
Why I don't like hidden cards... Tucked BJ's, hidden DD's, anything where cards are not shown don't have anything to do with strategy, but more of the luck factor. When cards are shown, players can base their play off of what information they can get from the other players, dealer, and their own cards. This is where the strategy comes from. When cards are not shown, it isn't bluffing, but guessing to what the other player(s) may or may not have. Now if a player(s) could raise there bet then it could be called a bluff, but the only way to increase your bet in blackjack is to DD or split and both those hands cards are exposed to do so and unless you need to do either of them it wouldn't make sense to do so anyway. I just believe that the hidden cards just increase the luck factor.
