# Tiebreaker Betting Question

Discussion in 'Blackjack Tournament Strategy' started by richgarcia, Feb 7, 2005.

1. ### richgarciaNew Member

The final hand ended in a two way tie. Each participant (A & B) was given 500 in non-negotiable chips. Single deck,doa,das,h17,no surrender,doubling card is dealt face down. Minimum bet:25. Maximum bet:500. One round decides the winner.

"A" bets first: 500
"B" bets next: 475 with 25 in unbet chips

Question: 1.Which is the better bet???
2. Would you have used the same strategy as A/B did???

2. ### HollywoodNew Member

B is the better bet

Since there is no surrender allowed, there is no difference between B betting the minimum, or everything except a single chip. None of the other rules variations matter, because in this heads-up scenario the only thing you need remember is that a player will lose more often than win.

-holly d.

3. ### JoepActive Member

I Beg To Differ

There is a big difference in betting the minium or everything except one chip.If you bet less than 250 dollars you can not double to get the high back.Remember always take the low but bet enough to at least have a chance to double and get the high back.Sorry Hollywood just don't want to see the wrong info being told to new players

Last edited: Feb 8, 2005
4. ### JoepActive Member

In case Hollywood pulls his incorrect post this is what my post was in reponse to

5. ### S. YamaActive Member

Make it 350 to 475.
You give up a chance to split but regain edge of winning by getting a blackjack.

S. Yama

6. ### HollywoodNew Member

oops

You're absolutely right. I oversimplified my answer. it definately would have to be 250, in fact to be more precise, a bet of 335 to 495 would still give you the low while giving you not only an opportunity to double for less, but if you hit a blackjack the total payout would be over 500, giving you the high with a natural regardless of whether or not the other player wins his single bet. So my final answer would be 335.

-holly d.

7. ### S. YamaActive Member

nitpicking

as per original poster: bets are 25 minimum which often means 25 increasment.

8. ### BJ SWEETHEARTNew Member

335 not a good bet.

I disagree with your 335 bet. betting 250s gives the player the opportunity to split, or double down if necessary. However, the 250 bet does not cover a bj on the 500 bet. but, your 335 bet does not cover a bj on the 500 bet either. 335 does not allow for a slpit situation and allows only for a double down. I must say that Joe's analysis is the best bet.

9. ### HollywoodNew Member

so what is your answer, regina? 250? then if you DO get a chance to split, and you DO win both hands, and the other player wins with you (which will happen most of the time when you win both of your hands) -- you will still end up being tied. and god forbid the dealer makes a hand and you LOSE both hands (while your opponent also loses), tying you once again. so implicit in this potential stalemate is the necessity to bet more than 250 and hope for the natural (which demands a bet of 335-495, or as Yama points out, most likely 350 to cover a probable \$25 incremental increase), and at worst you can always double for less. But obviously the overriding factor here is that you bet less & can take the low, as the chances of your opponent losing are greater than him winning.

as far as making a bet that covers your opponent's natural -- well, that's easy. No bet you could possibly make would cover that.

-hd.

Last edited: Feb 7, 2005
10. ### selecticomNew Member

tie breaker question

1. Given the fact that there is no strong positive count giving an edge to the players, "B"'s bet (gaining the low) is better, as it will happen more often that both players lose than both players win.

2. As "A", I would bet minimum. See 1.
As "B", I would bet a chip less than "A" (or match "A"'s minimum bet).

11. ### TXtourplayerExecutive Member

My play's would be.

For player "A" I would bet \$25 (the minimum) and force player "B" to bet higher. First low is your best bet. Less not get into what the count is, lets assume it is a new shuffle.

For player "B" (if player "A" bet's \$500) I agree with joep that you have to bet above \$250 for DD consideration. I agree with S. Yama that you need to bet enought to cover with a blackjack (yours). I agree with Hollywood that \$335 would be the best bet if possible, but if \$25 increments are require as S. Yama posts then \$350 is the best possible bet, (although anything up to \$475 does do the same).

Please note that a split could be a killer if betting over half your bankroll (\$250). Example: you bet \$350 of your \$500 bankroll and catch two eights, with only \$150 left you can't split, but you can't cover everything.

As I always point out you have to be lucky as well. If the other player hits a BJ your dead in the water. Or if they catch a good hand you have to DD your hand reguardless what you have just to tie.

One of you will have to deal with the dreaded Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda after effects of how you bet and or played the hand.

Last edited: Feb 9, 2005
12. ### JoepActive Member

Old Guard

After seeing all the "OLD GUARD" post.Old guard is what Hollywood refers to us as.I believe that the "OLD GUARD" will handle all the questions from new players about optium bets and Hollywood and his group can handle all questions about trash talking.They seem to have that subject covered.Leave the skill questions to the OLD GUARD

13. ### TXtourplayerExecutive Member

If the \$335 bet would be allow (question about if \$25 increments are required) it would pay \$502.50 and give you the win by \$2.50.

Sweetie you are thinking Hollywood meant bet \$335 (or \$350) to cover the other players blackjack. What Hollywood and S. Yama are talking about is by betting \$335 (or \$350) so they can cover the other players \$500 bet with a BJ of their own.

Last edited: Feb 9, 2005
14. ### JackarooNew Member

What a coincidence

Just about 3 hours before this thread was started yesterday, I was sitting at a Round 1 table in the Turning Stone (Verona/Oneida, NY) monthly Blackjack Doubleheader waiting for a tournament official to appear and tell us how we would resolve a tie for BR2 between me and one other player.

The tournament guy explains that ties are settled by a “sudden death overtime”. They play until one player has more chips than the other(s).

Play continues between the tied players with the chips they ended with and the button advancing in normal fashion from hand 25 which in this tournament is always seat 4 since they always begin at seat 1.

I was in Seat 1; my opponent was in Seat 5 which gave me position on him. We each had 860; betting limits are 10-300. He bet the max 300 and I followed suit. He got a hard sixteen on the deal; I caught 3,6; dealer showed a 5. Opponent waved off and stood on his stiff. I decided to end it with this one hand and played the basic strategy double down.

According to the preceding posts, I should have taken the low and bet 210. But that begs the question, “How do you decide to stay with the low once the cards are dealt?”

It seemed to me at the time, given the hands dealt, I had the best chance to advance with the play I made, i.e. getting more money out than opponent with a double down. I would make a hand drawing 8 thru A (seven outs, as PokerNut might say) to advance by pushing or beating the dealer’s hand; plus the backup possibility of dealer busting with the five 42% of the time.

--jr

15. ### JoepActive Member

no double

Once you made the bet that you did if you double you give up the low.you should have just hit hoping to catch a hand the worst you can do is wind up tied again ,you could only win and not lose if you did not double.The optium bet there would have been to take the low and now you can double to get the high back.

Last edited: Feb 8, 2005
16. ### JackarooNew Member

Still in the dark

Joep, I am not following you.
Once I made a matching bet I gave up the low without any doubling. Analyzing the play afterwards, I considered just hitting but figured if I did not swing the opponent, then we are back at square one only now I have to go first.
O.K. That is my question. Assuming I make the optimum bet taking the low, and don’t win with it straight away via a dealer BJ, then what? Do I take the high back with these cards?

17. ### selecticomNew Member

double or not?

Yes, you should double under these circumstances, but it's quite a close call.

Assuming you double: You lose the tie-break if you lose the hand (40.1%), you win the tie-break if you win or tie the hand (59.9%).

Assuming you just hit (or stand, or surrender): You lose the tie-break if the dealer busts (41.8%), you win the tiebreak if the dealer makes a hand (58.2%).

(Odds taken from blackjackinfo.com, 6 decks, dealer stands on all 17s)

18. ### tgunMember

what to bet?

"A" bets first: 500
"B" bets next: 475 with 25 in unbet chips

Question: 1.Which is the better bet???
2. Would you have used the same strategy as A/B did??? [/QUOTE]

I want to bet on the dealer win. Therefore, I would bet <500, and also, I don't want to give up splitting pairs. So I would bet \$250. My only for sure loss would be by "A" catching a natural. For everthing else I can double if I have to, including doubling a natural.

19. ### TXtourplayerExecutive Member

Listen to Joep

Jackaroo, what joep is talking about giving up the low is actually a tie for low at that point. You can just hit your (total of 9) and possibly still swing the other players 16 if the dealer draws out. The worst that could happen to you on this hand is you play another hand if the dealer bust, but by DD you open the door to your opponent beating you if the dealer draws out on you.

This is a prefect example of the dreaded: Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. How did you play turn out at Turning Stone, did you advance or not?

Tgun if you don't want to give up the split you shouldn't, for me on the other hand I would. You can DD anything (if need be), so the odds are better that you can DD then catching a pair to split (to me anyway).

Last edited: Feb 9, 2005
20. ### JoepActive Member

You can split or double

Think about this! Why give up the split when you can still double if you don't get a pair.So 1)you still have the low 2) if you get any pair you now can split 3)and you still have the option to double to tie for the high 4) next hand you bet first so you can bet min. and force the other player to win his hand to beat you.Remember betting enough to cover the other players BJ takes away your abilty to split.A Blackjack happens only 1 every 21 hands. In a sitution where there are only 2 players the low is stronger than the high.Its only a small edge but this town was built on a small edge,and this town keeps on getting BIGGER & BIGGER .