UB to relaunch Blackjack Tournaments

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hollywood, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. marichal

    marichal Member

    wow, quite a comment about maybe one should look at slot tourneys if they do not have the skill to compete sucessfully in bjt. oh, just a little background about myself. played 460 LIVE tournaments in 09. now down to 300 or so a year. i might know a little about bj tournaments, maybe not as much as you seem to, but i will bet on myself. one should alway look at the best deal in the gaming world. i believe that is what the lady was trying to express. i really want to see ub make a go at this. will support them, if it makes good business sense for myself. sounds like you have ample money in your life and do not have to make a sound business decision when playing bj tournaments. i, sir, do not work under that premise.
  2. BJFAN4

    BJFAN4 New Member


    Well said marichal. Savvy players understand what you are saying. I believe this site is dedicated to helping players find an edge.
  3. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member


    My post wasn't meant to slam a particular individual, maybe I should have been a little more careful in the exact language used. Maybe English needs a way to distinguish between the singular "you" and the generic, plural "you".

    Over the last few years I have seen many, many posts on this site, slamming casinos for running negative ev tourneys, not adding money to tourneys, wanting too much in rake, etc etc etc; also posts whining that the prize pool has to be huge compared to buyin or people shouldn't play, etc. I have seen posts advising that no one should play in any tourney that is not positive ev, etc. Over and over again.

    The same people always seem to also want tournaments that emphasize skillful play, and are open to all players, not just high roller invitees; and also, please, comp everything.

    This attitude, that BJT should be some big give away by the casino, that skilled players can then come in and cream the giant money added prize pools and suck up the great comps, and that anything else is somehow unfair, is exactly why we don't have good, skill based, open tournaments.

    Casinos will run open to all BJT using a format that emphases skillful play,when they can do so and make a profit at it, just like they make on poker, or any other game. The statement about poker tournaments having money added? Well, some, a very few, do, but the vast majority of poker tournaments have a very high rake. Rakes of 10% to as much as 25% in poker tournaments are quite common, much, much more common than tourneys with money added. Even the WSOP has an 8% rake. Harrah's doesn't run the WSOP as a promotion or for the publicity, they run it because they make millions off of it. The PR is just a bonus for them, that and the spin off merchandising; but, the tournaments themselves are very, very big money makers for Harrah's, and that is why they put them on.

    The size of the prize pool compared to the buyin is not really an issue, or shouldn't be. If the rake is fair, then the payoffs will be proportionate to prize pool and buyin. If you have an edge through skills, that edge will still be there.

    If we want big prize pools, then the way to get them is to get a lot of people to play, then the buyins will add up to a big prize pool .. duh ...

    The only way to get a big prize pool to buyin ratio without a lot of players is for the house to add money and create an overlay. Once the house does that, it is running a promotion, not a competitive tournament, and that is the very last thing we want to see in TBJ. When a casino or web site runs a promotion, they want payback, and that means catering to their high value high roller customers, banning skillful players, screwing up the rules and format to make it as much a lottery as possible, and generally doing everything that makes TBJ as unplayable and worthless as possible. The ultimate goal for any casino that runs TBJ as a promotion is to turn it into a giant high roller only slot tournament, because that's what pays off for them.

    Poker players accept raked tournaments, prize pools determined by entries, and +ev edge created by skillful play, not overlays; that's why casinos and web sites can make money off poker. Since they can make money off of poker, they have poker. When we can create an environment where they make money off of TBJ, they will give us good TBJ. Until they can make money off of it, they won't.

    When we accept a reasonable rake, are willing to let prize pools come from entry fees and be sized by the number of players entering, and until we are confident that our edge comes from play, not casino give aways, and let play decide the ev, then we will see TBJ start growing and get good tournaments, because the casinos will benefit from doing that.

    Advocating for anything else, or complaining about negative ev, rake, smaller prize pools because the casino won't add money to the pot, guarantees that don't generate overlays through being overly generous, etc. just hurts TBJ, and fosters exactly the attitudes that convince casinos not to offer decent TBJ.

    Simple recipe for encouraging casinos and web sites to offer an expansive line up of skill based TBJ tournaments: be willing to put up your money on an equal basis with every other player, be willing to pay a fair rake so the casino can cover their costs and make a profit, and be willing to let the outcome be determined by comparative skill, and be willing to let your profit/loss be determined by comparative skill. That's how poker works, and it has been successful.
    gronbog and Sandy Eggo like this.
  4. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    A million AMENS to the above post. Great job, RK.
  5. pokernut

    pokernut New Member

    Good post but I think BJ tourneys also need to stop being so top heavy in the payouts and pay atleast 10% of the field.
  6. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member


    I've never played a live poker tournament, but online, paying 10% of the field is pretty standard, sometimes up to 15% or even 20%. From what I have seen on tv, etc., 10% is probably the norm in life tourneys, including big ones like WSOP tourneys. In live TBJ, it seems like paying 10% is actually pretty much the norm, as well. In small tournaments. everyone at the final table gets paid, so, 60 to 70 players (or less) and 6 or 7 get money. In larger tournaments, it's pretty normal for semi-finalists to be paid, as well as the final table, so maybe 18 to 24 out of 200 get paid, again, about 10%. I've played in tournaments where they went very far down with payouts, quarter finalists receiving payouts, etc. - but, those tourneys generally have some casino money added, and the top payout is maybe 20% of the total prize pool.

    The thing with TBJ is the fields are small, so even paying 10% doesn't get you very deep.
  7. tomlw

    tomlw Member

    Deposits and Withdrawals

    I have not had any money in my UB account in quite some time. In todays environment, how do you get money in and out? Is anyone letting them take money directly from your bank account? If so, what has your experience been? Are there other viable options? Would like to hear from anyone with recent experiences.
  8. noman

    noman Top Member


    Surprisingly easy dollar movement. Low end trial amount. Get's good practice at $2 sitngos.
    Strongly suggest running a relatively newer CPU or having TONS of available memory. Jump in the water's fine. Not all that happy with customer service.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  9. Sandy Eggo

    Sandy Eggo Member

  10. marichal

    marichal Member

    poker sites

    did not see that ub was shut down, just poker stars, full tilt, and absolute were the ones.
  11. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    UB.com was seized as well. They're the same company as AbsolutePoker now. Looks like another nail in the coffin there. Good luck to anyone who still has money parked at any of these sites.
  12. marichal

    marichal Member

    hey ken;

    did not know that they were a division of absolute. i was just taking the info off of the reno newspaper. that's too bad. like you stated, another nail in the coffin.
  13. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    Prohibition rides again

    Check out what you get when you try UB's site:


    What a shame, I really was looking forward to UB getting the kinks out to start the BJT's. :cry:
  14. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    I guess the usual restriction about not posting direct links to online casinos or poker rooms doesn't really apply this time. :) After all, the URL now goes to the Department of Justice!
  15. onebounce

    onebounce New Member

    Ub and ap still up


  16. noman

    noman Top Member

    Kiss my grits

    They're all over my face. Less than a day after I post a "water's fine" endorsement the plug gets pulled and the whirlpool sucks it all away. Don't ever believe another post of mine. I don't know what I'm talking about. Though. While Pokerstars and Fulltilt have the FBI notice, UB is still running, I believe from ZWEEKY's post because they changed the URL. And the sites are still running other than in the US, because in Europe they are regulated and taxed.

    Holding back my opinion of the "NAMES" promoting the site(s) because they are just like celebrities promoting any product. Oh well guess I gotta gas up the beater. Good fortune all.
  17. gronbog

    gronbog Top Member

    For black jack, it looks like only the ring games and sitngo tourneys are still running now. The only other scheduled tourney right now is the pokertube one on 4/25.

    My request to cash out my entire account was rejected. There was no limit when I made the request, but now cashouts are limited to $250 USD. I've tried again at that amount. We'll see what happens. I'm Canadian, so there should be no problem, but one never knows!
  18. gronbog

    gronbog Top Member

    I received my cheque in the mail this week. There is hope, for non US players at least!

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