UBT Barona tournaments cancelled ! ??

Discussion in 'Ultimate Blackjack Tour' started by Redhook, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. swog

    swog Elite Member Staff Member

    I hate to see so many rumors flying around. Why don't we wait for an official announcement from UBT or Barona about what is/will happen.
    Too many people with limited information are speaking out about the situation at this point. Someone with UBT will tell us the details and Max Rubin, who has posted here in the past is with Barona, so we will receive answers. Let's not all jump to conclusions. I feel bad for those that have made plans to attend the TOC, and especially the final table "seat" winner at Club UBT.
    But let's see what pans out. We all want the same thing....more quality blackjack tournaments.
  2. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    There is a post on LVA, just appeared, where Joe P. copied an email from Russ about this situation.
  3. bjmace

    bjmace Member

    posted here

    Am sure Ken Smith won't mind if i copy Joe's post to here:

    Here is an email I just received from Russ Hamilton rather that write in my words his plan i just posted his email. This is what you guys wanted an offical word from the guy in charge.Well here it is


    Would you 3 guys please post that I am out of the country and will be returning on monday and will make a personal post on all forums on exactly what is happening. The UBT is not going away---neither is ClubUBT but there are some major changes being made for the changing market. Let people know this and that I will make a personal post on Monday afternoon sometime. Let them know that NOBODY that has paid for a seat at Barona or anyone that has won a seat will in any way not receive their $10,000. entry back or be given a chance to select another option. Barona HAS been posponed at this time---but in no way will anyone be harmed financially by this. Thanks and I will release a full post to everyone that maybe all the forums can post. THANKS---

  4. fgk42

    fgk42 New Member

    Rumors and jumping to conclusions? Moi?

    Well since you mentioned rumors - I did a little invesitgational work (it was hard believe me!) into the security cameras that operate at Barona.

    After reviewing hours of video I came across this tiny frame that I believe explains what really happened between UBT and Barona...

    Mind you this is ONLY a rumor

    it "could" explain what happened...

    or it might just be another "rumor"

    you just never know do you? :joker:

    Attached Files:

  5. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    Also posted at LVA - reposting here as a courtesy to all:

    Well, everyone has been strangely quiet since the above post appeared (NOTE: referring to Joep's posting of Russ Hamilton's email), so I'll put my own thoughts up.

    Congratulations in a big way to Russ for finally stepping up and addressing this unfortunate situation. Somebody from UBT's front office needed to do or say something in an official capacity, and it's obvious that Russ' words have calmed the waters. A sincere thanks to Joe for posting it.

    IMHO, there are at least 3 points that need to be addressed. Since neither Deb nor I were personally involved (other than being appalled at how the whole thing went down), one can be assured that there's no "agenda" behind these.

    1. He mentions that no one will be harmed financially by this, presumably meaning the TOC cancellation/postponement. Does this include those who had already laid out $$$ for TOC-related travel costs that are not refundable through the merchant from which they were obtained?

    2. There has been mention of future plans and changes for UBT-related activities in the future, including the claim that the TOC wasn't canceled, merely rescheduled. That sounds great, but (and forgive me for sounding flippant here) that is asking the TBJ community to trust in these promises, and that kind of trust hasn't exactly been earned by recent events. Certainly the UBT cannot "drop their pants" and tell everything that is cooking due to ongoing negotiations, but a few scraps of news regarding future plans would be quite helpful.

    3. This is likely something that will never be publicly released, but it would go a long ways toward rebuilding trust in the UBT by the TBJ public at large. Has the person who won the TOC final table seat in the Club's online tournament been officially informed of the recent developments? I cannot forget how devastated Deb was when she was informed that her hard-won Aruba adventure had been canceled, and that was peanuts compared to losing a final table seat for $1 million. Also, how will UBT compensate that person for the loss? Had I managed to finish off my run for that seat and was later offered $10,000 for it, there's no way I'd have found that acceptable. Offering $10K to those who had earned or paid for an entry into the TOC is the right thing to do, but the online champion earned a spot at the final table, not just an entry into the tournament itself. That seat had an EV of over $140K.

    I'll say again that it was simply excellent to see something from Russ that addressed the situation, and hope that I speak for the majority here by saying that we are eagerly anticipating the release of the promised future news. I want UBT to flourish. And, even though we aren't permitted to play, I also want the Club to succeed. With other recent bad news in the TBJ community, we need something positive to act as a beacon for other TBJ events, not unlike the WSOP's acting as a catalyst for the entire poker community in the post-Moneymaker era. There's a lot more riding on UBT's shoulders than simply the UBT itself.

    SJMNEMM Member

    Just why arnt you allowed to play on ubt?

    Do i understand your not allowed to play on ubt or maybe just some of the games??? and if so why??? if i may ask

    SJMNEMM Member


    dont go back and help look for him!!!!!!!!!! its me and i am in hiding :D
  8. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    Residents of certain states (12, I think) are not allowed to join ClubUBT due to some kind of laws in those states.
    I am in one of those states.
  9. toonces

    toonces Member

    ClubUBT does online gambling via a sweepstakes format, where you join a club which gives you the right to win prizes in various tournaments, similar to how yahoo games or other sites run prize tournaments. 12 states explicitly ban this type of arrangement.
  10. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

  11. Orca

    Orca New Member

    Barona's Nov 27-29 & Nov 30-Dec 2 BJT events

    From another thread:


    In other words, Barona will honor their commitment to the schedule and to their bottom line, not to the players from whom they had taken money and to whom they have contractual obligations. These players paid their money to Barona itself, not UBT. The contracts were for those players to play in Barona's blackjack tournaments with guaranteed prize money. The BJT format was not what attracted these players. The guaranteed prize money did, and Barona did guarantee it. Whether Barona wants to or can license certain BJT format, or whether it will be in a TV show or will allow someone to sit directly at a final table without competing in its scheduled events, were separate. These were governed by contracts it has with the other entities. Now Barona is unilaterally bailing out of a deal it has with these paying players......

    Here's an analogy: A guy walked into a store and paid for two products which guaranteed certain payback on the expiration dates. The owner of the store accepted his money, but came back close to expiration time to tell the guy: "We know we loudly advertised these products. Even though you have paid for them and we had a deal, we are not giving them to you now because we no longer want to pay the licensing fees we would have to pay for them. Instead, we have our home-brewed products with the same expiration dates and the same guaranteed results, but to get them, you now have to satisfy certain conditions. Sorry!...."
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  12. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    Orca, at this time we have Barona saying UBT canceled out, not Barona. Until we hear from Russ UBT is in the place your story explains. We dont know who has the funds people like Ken S. have paid it might be UBT. Barona may have been filling the game with comped players, and UBT doing funding etc. Fact is we just dont know and who knows might never know. But at this time Barona has said UBT pulled out at it is gracious of Barona to offer their customers games in replacement Hopefully Russ will explain the situation today. I hope he uses the most important word. Sorry.
  13. Orca

    Orca New Member

    I didn't quote Max Rubin's admission that Barona was paying UBT licensing fees and his questioning why any casino would host these types of events without a TV show or a player development program in place for nothing.

    UBT is not a casino. Barona is, and it was accepting the scheduled events' entry fees which could have been paid with credit cards. We also have witnesses posting here that Barona called to inform them "CBS canceled" If you couldn't connect the dots and understand what was going on, you may want to ask a lawyer to explain it to you.
  14. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

  15. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    I giving UBT a pass. It sounds like what I once called the arrogant arm of BJT is coming to their senses. The first events were not for every BJT player as they said, the events had too high of entry fees. I think UBT has learned a lesson.

    I have been accused at lav.com of being a Baroney, I am not. Someone over there needs a gag by UBT, IMHO.
  16. LeftNut

    LeftNut Top Member

    Someone over there also needs a little forced vacation from access to that site.
    I've seen some pretty inappropriate language and personal insults. :eek:

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