TXtourplayer
Executive Member
March 24th, 2007, 05:29 AM
I'm sorry for the mis-information Cos, I was going by what Joep posted on March 24th.
Venetian Friday Night Sit & Go's
- Thread starter Joep
- Start date
Most of the time when I enter the Venetian I usually avoid the Las Vegas Strip entrance,but last night after having dinner with some members of BJT at the Venetian I drove out the front and was really surprised to see that the Venetian was playing the UBT sizzle reel on their sign that overlooks Las Vegas Blvd.It seems strange to see yourself and others that you know being shown on the Las Vegas Strip.
Kudos to the Venetian for making that part of the Strip promotion for all to see.
Joep
Kudos to the Venetian for making that part of the Strip promotion for all to see.
Joep
Rick you must have missed this post of mine on March 31 You really should get into the habit of making sure that when you quote me its current and accurate.I'm not responsible for the Venetian's time table,and when it wasn't implemented I made that clear.
No worries Rick we are all use to your inaccurate statements.We actually look forward to them.:laugh:
Joep
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Tonight Friday night update
What ever the Venetian is doing it seems to be working as there were a lot of new faces playing tonight along with some of the usual suspects.
Adriana Jade
Norm Sheridan
Yama
Jimmy D "Date Guy"
Mike S & Lupe
Dr Richard J.
Joep
Stanley Roper a Tulsa Okl player who happen to make at least 2 Final Tables that I can recall in the week long Tulsa event in Febuary actually made an apperance at the Venetian last night.
Actually Tina and Bernd the couple from Germany that I meet on Ricks cruise in Aug showed up.They are in town for the Palms event which starts on Wednesday with one table satellites prior to the main event which kicks off at 12 noon on Friday.
A interesting situation occurred and if you were the tournament Director tell me how you would have ruled
It's an elimination hand with 3 players left. All 3 players use their secret bets.
Player 1 is dealt a 6-2 and now ask for his secret action card.Dealer has a 10 up
He steps away from the table and when he returns the dealer gives him his card face down.On all secret action cards there are 3 different options you can chose from if the dealer is not showing an Ace.
The 3 choices are
Stand
Double Down
Surrender
Player 1 wrote on his secret action card Hit,which is not listed as an option. Since no one was able to see what he wrote before the dealer acted on his hand When he was given one card face down he asked to look at it to see if he wanted to hit again.
When he was told when you are in a secret action mode you receive one card and one card only,he disputed it saying he didn't know and wanted the option to give up his secret action and now hit his hand in the open. How would you rule if you were the tournament director?
I will reveal what the final decision was after I see how most would have ruled if they were the Tournament Director.
I had a winning night playing in 5 tournaments and cashing in 3 of the 5 for a profit.
One of my rounds which is the round where the secret action problem occurred I was Br 1 with a 2,750 lead going into the final hand.We were heads up.I bet 5,000 .Now the question I have for you if you were Br 2 what would you have bet there?
I had 57,750
Br 2 had 55,000
I bet 5,000 if you were Br 2 what bet would you have made after I bet 5,000 out in the open? Note that Br2 has no secret bet.
Next Friday there should be a nice turnout as the Palms event will be running also in the day and by 8PM all players should be done with their rounds as the Final table for the Palms event is Saturday afternoon.
Joep
What ever the Venetian is doing it seems to be working as there were a lot of new faces playing tonight along with some of the usual suspects.
Adriana Jade
Norm Sheridan
Yama
Jimmy D "Date Guy"
Mike S & Lupe
Dr Richard J.
Joep
Stanley Roper a Tulsa Okl player who happen to make at least 2 Final Tables that I can recall in the week long Tulsa event in Febuary actually made an apperance at the Venetian last night.
Actually Tina and Bernd the couple from Germany that I meet on Ricks cruise in Aug showed up.They are in town for the Palms event which starts on Wednesday with one table satellites prior to the main event which kicks off at 12 noon on Friday.
A interesting situation occurred and if you were the tournament Director tell me how you would have ruled
It's an elimination hand with 3 players left. All 3 players use their secret bets.
Player 1 is dealt a 6-2 and now ask for his secret action card.Dealer has a 10 up
He steps away from the table and when he returns the dealer gives him his card face down.On all secret action cards there are 3 different options you can chose from if the dealer is not showing an Ace.
The 3 choices are
Stand
Double Down
Surrender
Player 1 wrote on his secret action card Hit,which is not listed as an option. Since no one was able to see what he wrote before the dealer acted on his hand When he was given one card face down he asked to look at it to see if he wanted to hit again.
When he was told when you are in a secret action mode you receive one card and one card only,he disputed it saying he didn't know and wanted the option to give up his secret action and now hit his hand in the open. How would you rule if you were the tournament director?
I will reveal what the final decision was after I see how most would have ruled if they were the Tournament Director.
I had a winning night playing in 5 tournaments and cashing in 3 of the 5 for a profit.
One of my rounds which is the round where the secret action problem occurred I was Br 1 with a 2,750 lead going into the final hand.We were heads up.I bet 5,000 .Now the question I have for you if you were Br 2 what would you have bet there?
I had 57,750
Br 2 had 55,000
I bet 5,000 if you were Br 2 what bet would you have made after I bet 5,000 out in the open? Note that Br2 has no secret bet.
Next Friday there should be a nice turnout as the Palms event will be running also in the day and by 8PM all players should be done with their rounds as the Final table for the Palms event is Saturday afternoon.
Joep
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My Opinion
I think once a player uses his secret action he has committed himself to just getting one card. I wouldn't like to see a rule change allowing a player to peek at the card and change his play either. That's too much like a mulligan. You could double down on 11 in secret then decide to change your mind and take another hit if you get stiffed with the first card.
My bet as BR2 would be 18k.
I think once a player uses his secret action he has committed himself to just getting one card. I wouldn't like to see a rule change allowing a player to peek at the card and change his play either. That's too much like a mulligan. You could double down on 11 in secret then decide to change your mind and take another hit if you get stiffed with the first card.
My bet as BR2 would be 18k.
LeftNut
Top Member
Bomb's away
In answer to your last question, I'd have bombed away with a big enough bet to make it damn near impossible for you to take the high without some really insane Curt's Revenge antics. Of course, I could also bet very small, just enough to negate your surrender yet keep the low for myself, but bombing away removes any chance for an excellent player like yourself to have any control of the outcome. I like my chances better by letting the cards determine the outcome than trying to out-strategize a guy like you!
As far as the secret bet situation - I used to (and still do) run bowling tournaments for some local organizations, and I've had people try to skirt the rules by claiming ignorance. Sorry, buddy, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Depends on what the rules say about mis-marking a secret bet, and I don't have a copy of those in front of me. In that situation, I'd likely let him have his ONE card hit, and that's all she wrote.
Perhaps "HIT" could be an option on the secrets? With the caveat that you get one card, and that's it. One could also DD for zero and accomplish the same thing.
In answer to your last question, I'd have bombed away with a big enough bet to make it damn near impossible for you to take the high without some really insane Curt's Revenge antics. Of course, I could also bet very small, just enough to negate your surrender yet keep the low for myself, but bombing away removes any chance for an excellent player like yourself to have any control of the outcome. I like my chances better by letting the cards determine the outcome than trying to out-strategize a guy like you!
As far as the secret bet situation - I used to (and still do) run bowling tournaments for some local organizations, and I've had people try to skirt the rules by claiming ignorance. Sorry, buddy, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Depends on what the rules say about mis-marking a secret bet, and I don't have a copy of those in front of me. In that situation, I'd likely let him have his ONE card hit, and that's all she wrote.
Perhaps "HIT" could be an option on the secrets? With the caveat that you get one card, and that's it. One could also DD for zero and accomplish the same thing.
My Thoughts
My first thought as far as the tournament director decision was to have made the player keep his card face down and not be able to hit it again. No dd, no surrendar and no stand. The more I think about it I would disqualify the player because writing another option on the card is not in the rules and doing anything different wouldn't be fair to the other players.
My first thought was to bet $13,000. $3,000 to make up the $2,750 deficiet and $10,000 to cover your double down. With only only two people left and betting last I would take the high and let the chips fall where they would. Monkey's 18,000 would cover a split and dd by you. I guess at this point of the game betting the additional $5,000 wouldn't really matter.
If you would have made a max bet (which I believe is $25,000) I would have taken the low.
My first thought as far as the tournament director decision was to have made the player keep his card face down and not be able to hit it again. No dd, no surrendar and no stand. The more I think about it I would disqualify the player because writing another option on the card is not in the rules and doing anything different wouldn't be fair to the other players.
My first thought was to bet $13,000. $3,000 to make up the $2,750 deficiet and $10,000 to cover your double down. With only only two people left and betting last I would take the high and let the chips fall where they would. Monkey's 18,000 would cover a split and dd by you. I guess at this point of the game betting the additional $5,000 wouldn't really matter.
If you would have made a max bet (which I believe is $25,000) I would have taken the low.
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Rulebook
Is there anything in the official rules covering an improperly marked, spoiled, or unmarked secret action card by a player? One would think it would be treated the same way as a player timing out, defaulting to making the player stand.
Is there anything in the official rules covering an improperly marked, spoiled, or unmarked secret action card by a player? One would think it would be treated the same way as a player timing out, defaulting to making the player stand.
Blackjack Rebel Too
Member
Considering that this tournament takes walk-up entries, are the rules on the secret bet posted or contained in a rule sheet given to entrants? I would think that they are but if they are not, how would a person unfamiliar with the format know that the secret bet card did not contain an option to hit until he got his first one.
You are allowed to ask and see a secret action card before you make a decision on if you will use it.I have seen players look at the options on the card and then say they are not going to use it. I have even witnessed players after looking at the secret action card call over the tournament director as ask a question about what they could or could not do while in this mode.This player had that option, but chose to write in "Hit" which wasn't on the card.
This was not the first time this player has played this format.
Joep
This was not the first time this player has played this format.
Joep
Well then ....
Since he could have hit (doubled for zero) then I think this guy was only trying to weasel another hit for free....especially since it was not his first time playing the format...but even then it a players responsiblity to get a copy of the rules and study them before the game...
In fact its just plain dumb to not do that as every tournament has one or two little things that always make them unique rules wise..
This is easy....NO second hit....if dealer accidently hit it then run his hand back and disqualify that hand only for him...
Then Id tell him to stop screwing around...;-)
Since he could have hit (doubled for zero) then I think this guy was only trying to weasel another hit for free....especially since it was not his first time playing the format...but even then it a players responsiblity to get a copy of the rules and study them before the game...
In fact its just plain dumb to not do that as every tournament has one or two little things that always make them unique rules wise..
This is easy....NO second hit....if dealer accidently hit it then run his hand back and disqualify that hand only for him...
Then Id tell him to stop screwing around...;-)
Rando the difference is if you DD for zero you get only one card.He wanted the flexibility to hide his hit card in secret and still have the option to take a second hit which is against the rules.If you want to use this to hide your result you need to accept that doing this you limit yourself to only being able to take one hit.
I know this player and I really don't think he was trying to pull a move here.I really believe that he was confused of what he could do.He did write down hit on the secret action card even though that is not an option.
But your point of knowing what the rules are before you play is good advice for all to heed
Joep
I know this player and I really don't think he was trying to pull a move here.I really believe that he was confused of what he could do.He did write down hit on the secret action card even though that is not an option.
But your point of knowing what the rules are before you play is good advice for all to heed
Joep
The Ruling
The Tournament Director ruled that it was not a valid request to ask for hit and forced the player to stand on his hand of 6-2.The dealer wound up busting and the player was paid for the hand so it really became a moot point.But I believe that was the correct call. We never did get to see what the card was because it was burned into the discards so we will never know if it changed how the dealers hand worked out,the dealer did take more than one hit to complete their hand.
Joep
The Tournament Director ruled that it was not a valid request to ask for hit and forced the player to stand on his hand of 6-2.The dealer wound up busting and the player was paid for the hand so it really became a moot point.But I believe that was the correct call. We never did get to see what the card was because it was burned into the discards so we will never know if it changed how the dealers hand worked out,the dealer did take more than one hit to complete their hand.
Joep
What's the difference between DD for zero, and a "hit"?
If is intention was to disguise the value of the card, I can see the TD simply explaining the rules not allowing that option, and giving a hit to the player.
Something similar to this happened, with an issue involving a secret action, at another EBJ event, but I don't recall the result.
If is intention was to disguise the value of the card, I can see the TD simply explaining the rules not allowing that option, and giving a hit to the player.
Something similar to this happened, with an issue involving a secret action, at another EBJ event, but I don't recall the result.
What's the difference between DD for zero, and a "hit"?
When you DD for zero you will only receive one card.When you hit you can receive as many cards as you like until you were to bust or reach a total that you decide is good enough to win. In the secret bet/secret action mode you do not have the option to take a hit face down which is a very valuable tool in this format. So if you want to hide your result and give up the option of taking a second hit card the only way to do this would be to DD for zero.
Joep
When you DD for zero you will only receive one card.When you hit you can receive as many cards as you like until you were to bust or reach a total that you decide is good enough to win. In the secret bet/secret action mode you do not have the option to take a hit face down which is a very valuable tool in this format. So if you want to hide your result and give up the option of taking a second hit card the only way to do this would be to DD for zero.
Joep
How about this bet ?
Monkey your 18K is a good bet as it is 1/3 of your bankroll and it gives you flexibility in case you get a pair and need to split to 3 hands.But it leaves a tiny opportunity for Br 1 if they happen to get 4 bets out on the felt to win 20,000 plus the 2750 lead which would now force you to have to DD on any hand to regain the high.I like a bet that allows me to take the high without having to revert to a Curt's Revenge to regain the high,and that would be 25,000 and the "PURE" high and still have 30,000 held behind to use a basic strategy split if a pair is received.
Joep
Monkey your 18K is a good bet as it is 1/3 of your bankroll and it gives you flexibility in case you get a pair and need to split to 3 hands.But it leaves a tiny opportunity for Br 1 if they happen to get 4 bets out on the felt to win 20,000 plus the 2750 lead which would now force you to have to DD on any hand to regain the high.I like a bet that allows me to take the high without having to revert to a Curt's Revenge to regain the high,and that would be 25,000 and the "PURE" high and still have 30,000 held behind to use a basic strategy split if a pair is received.
Joep
Is This The Reason Why?
Agreed, 25K is stronger than 18K.
The 18K bet accounts for the unlikely event of need for a BS resplit. However, it's actually more likely than that for a desperate opponent to get four bets on the felt because all he/she needs to do that is one pair. That's why 25K is better than 18K, because it's more important to cover an opponent's four bets than to account for your own BS resplit.
Am I right about this?
Agreed, 25K is stronger than 18K.
The 18K bet accounts for the unlikely event of need for a BS resplit. However, it's actually more likely than that for a desperate opponent to get four bets on the felt because all he/she needs to do that is one pair. That's why 25K is better than 18K, because it's more important to cover an opponent's four bets than to account for your own BS resplit.
Am I right about this?
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