We are the Lunatic Fringe at Bet21.com

[Kaminari]

All of us who play there are lunatics.

This is proven by the simple act we engage in of playing blackjack online at all with these anamolies that we observe and no recourse to verify that the computer game we play is manipulated or not.

Blind faith lunatics, one and all. Or are we?

Now, we have developed some information, and what do we do with it? Name calling isn't really productive.

Some folks choose to boycott the site, but I believe the other reasons cited are very valid and probably drive that decision more so than the weird cards.

I have vacilated between playing or boycotting because I am on the one hand so completely pissed off at Bet21.com Customer (lack of) Service and on the other hand enjoying the game.

If were going to quit, it would be over the handling of payment issues, which, hey, I am fortunate enough to be cashing out in the first place, right?

I must say that the statistacal extremes and weird incidences we observe indicate exploitation opportunities might exist for those who look hard enough. And I win often enough I am not going to quit now.

Lastly, I am not part of Team UBT and have no reason to defend Bet21.com, rather, I plan to extract revenue from them just like I stick it to every other casino where I play.

Anyone else want to comment?

 

[TedinNaples]

what he said

Anyone else want to comment?

I couldn't have said it better myself. As long as I keep winning overall, then I'll keep playing. Living in Florida doesn't make it easy for me to attend live events. So with all the faults and negatives about bet21.com, it's still the only, and in my humble opinion, the best game in town.

 

[Reachy]

What upsets me most about the Bet21 situation is how divisive it has been. Bet21 and UBT were supposed to be the best thing to ever happen to TBJ and yet its main effect seems to have been enmity.

I have been a member of this forum for a little over a year now and know the majority of you through this media only. When I joined I was almost overwhelmed by the enthusiasm for the game of the members here, and the support I received as I made my first tentative steps into the world of TBJ. In the space of that year I have made what I would like to call good friends and have seen friendships develop between other members. I’ve even benefited from a dream trip to LV because of this forum and one member in particular.

However since Bet21/UBT came on the scene the community seems to have descended into a civil war. Many of those friendships that I have seen flower in this past year, and some of the established ones, have turned into open hostility, name calling and just general unpleasantness. This forum is not the warm place it was when I first joined.

We’ve also witnessed a loss of some of the more learned and respected members, some of whom have real in-depth knowledge and experience of the game and that certainly helped my early on.

Would things have been different if the promised bonuses had been awarded? That’s difficult to say. I’m sure there would still be some scrapping, but the majority of the members here would have been satisfied and had nothing to complain about. Sure there was the seating issue (now resolved) and the ever rumbling RNG questions, but I think they are minor compared to the bonus issue. It seems to boil down to trust and respect and it’s compounded by a woeful customer service. If you wanted a lesson on how not to conduct a service-based business then you need look no further than Bet21!

So what do I think of those who continue to play knowing all of the above? Well, it’s your choice I say, and I won’t be judgemental. I look at it this way for my own personal decision: is the organisation I’m giving my money to being honest and upfront about how they are doing business? In other words – can I trust them? If the answer is no then I seriously have to consider not doing business with them anymore. But what if I can make a profit by still doing business with this organisation, does that change things? Well it shouldn’t….

I really hope that Bet21 resolves all outstanding issues to everyone’s satisfaction. However whilst that may mend some bridges between disgruntled customers and the organisation itself I fear that many of the personal relationships that have been damaged by this situation will never be repaired, and that is a real shame.

Cheers

Reachy

 

[fgk42]

Dear Reachy,

Words of wisdom my fine British friend. While I was originally going to quote your prior post and add my own thoughts here and there I have instead decided to leave your sage words intact.

As for myself I’ve gone back and re-read some of what I have posted. Some of my positions have been on principle, some out of wanting to learn, some out of spite and most “trying” to be humorous.

With regard to Bet21.com – This will be my LAST comment about them (until such time that I get my promised deposit bonus). And the way I want to do it is with an anology.

In the United States the stage is set for a confrontation between the Legislative and Executive Branches of our government over the Iraq war. On Thursday the congress passed a spending bill and will send it to the president. The bill contains the necessary funds to support/pay for the troops, etc with the stipulation that a specific withdrawal date is established.

The President (Executive Branch) had informed the congress (Legislative Branch) that he will veto the bill in its existing form a week ago. Without enough votes for a congressional override of the veto the Congress passed the bill ANYWAY – just to make their point. I fully expect the President to veto the bill just to reinforce his authority and power of the Executive Branch.

Both sides have drawn a line in the sand and the rhetoric is getting very nasty. Tempers are flaring, accusations rising and the mood of the country, at least of those actually paying attention to this fiasco, is souring and quickly. What is the solution? Who will “blink” first? The media are acting like sharks smelling blood in the water and are tossing fuel (gasoline and ethanol) into the mix. I fear nothing good will come of this situation. In fact it is becoming nothing more than a major distraction. The reality is that Congress can’t do squat about this. As much as they BELIEVE it makes a difference the Constitution is established in such a manner that all their rhetoric will be in vain.

Instead of spending so much time, effort, money, etc.. on this topic why not do something USEFUL like tax reform? Health care reform, Litigation/Tort reform? Dealing with social security? Etc.

What does this have to do with TBJ?

For the past few weeks I realize that I have been taking stances against Bet21.com on correct principle when in reality it doesn’t matter. My initial response to this was simply an effort to get the owners/powers that be at Bet21.com to “wake up”, smell the coffee, pay attention to their customers and live up to their hype. Unfortunately when that didn’t happen I took it personally and decided to push further. When that didn’t work I decided to try and push as hard as I could, never realizing that just like the Congress is doing, in the grand schemes it wasn’t going to make a difference.

Last night on the Be In Action Radio Program the hosts were discussing the last UBT stop at The Palms. They spent a lot of time discussing how The Palms basically blew it with regards to promoting the event. From the lack of promotion, to not bringing in players and the ultimate snub, not even having an official present to award the check to the finalists. This was done in spite of the fact that All In magazine does a nice article on The Palms, the fact that they will be on CBS due to the UBT show, etc. And while I don’t remember the hosts exact words one phrase sticks with me, “I guess the Palms thought that they were too popular and didn’t need us [UBT]…so I guess we’ll have to take our business elsewhere.”

Hmmm, now where have I heard THAT before? Could it be that the UBT people have finally experienced how I have felt about Bet21.com? Now here’s an interesting question, if the Palms were the only place left to host a UBT event would they do it? [Note: This is a hypothetical question and I don’t really care to know]

So WHY has the atmosphere here at BJT.com changed? If I KNEW for certain I’m sure that I could sell the answer to Ken Smith – he’d pay me just so that he wouldn’t have to constantly monitor the posts.

My take on this is that people have gotten so close with THINGS, i.e., formats, that these THINGS become more important than our fellow members. I’m guilty of believing that unless you liked EBJ more than TBJT you were a dinosaur. I was also guilty of thinking that accumulation only formats were for ploppies with little to no strategy.

I was wrong on both accounts.

I had forgotten the old adage that it’s ok to disagree about things and still be friends. To Reachy I agree that it seems like some relationships on this site have deteriorated. If I played any role in that I apologize for that. If I’ve offended anyone with my photo posts – I’m sorry. I was just trying to “lighten” the mood. I’ve decided that my mom was right, “If you don’t have something nice to say about someone – then don’t say anything at all”.

The other thing that got me thinking about the status here at BJT.com is Barney Frank. Now from a political standpoint Mr. Frank and I have NOTHING in common except this – our disdain for UIGEA. So this is an example of the old cliché, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I for one feel that instead of focusing my energy, time and resources on making points about Bet21.com or EBJ vs. TBJT it would best be spent fighting the common enemy to all BJT players, poker players, backgammon and even paper/rock/scissors players – UIGEA.

Bet21.com – Love or Hate em. Play there or Watch there – the choice is yours and yours alone to make.

 

[Barney Stone]

Fgk

If you become as good of a BJT players as a writer we are all in trouble!

 

[Rando21]

"the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

Almost....the problems here on the site are created almost single handly by the completion of the above ...and by one person in particular.

"the friend of my enemy can not be my friend."

There can be NO excuse made for Bet 21 at this point...They are a business who lies to the customer...add to that that they dont care enough to even try to explain why they lie....in fact they dont bother to explain anything...they act as bullies not bothering to acknowledge but even worse not bothering to make right promises made by them....

Now you have a few guys here willing to compromise any principle because ...Hey...Im winning money so I dont care how they operate. Im ahead so far....thats ok because at least you understand that you are dealing with crooks at this point and you understand the risks you are taking with your own money.

But one person comes here and ignores every wrong done...he bullies, taunts, makes false bets, mocks others...but what he never does is speak a single bad word about lies or this company....

Why do you suppose that is?

What motivates a person to put forth such a hard sell for this site who has proven itself to be willing to lie about your money?

Further this one person ignores the forums owners opinion which respect alone would indicate that a smart person should at least do one of two things ...work endlessly to solve the issues or at leaast to keep quiet...he choses to do neither. Rather he comes here and puts forth promotion of this problem laden site.

Why would someone do that?

No one started out with anything but high hopes and best wishes for the success of these online and affiliated live games....NOT ONE PERSON HERE...wished any bad will towards them....I still dont think anyone does wish any bad will...but we now understand that we have been lied to and in spite of undeserved patience of the best customers they continue to ignore issues.
And further ...one person comes here and asks us to ignore the lies and he promotes this site shamelessly....

Im sorry but I feel that focus is out of order until and if he works as hard at solving his "friends" issues..

Lets face it ...everyone who paid money and was promised a bonus was stolen from....you are victims of a crime....that could not be any clearer....
Promoters who ignore that crime and continue to promote and endorse the site are not being honest....to themselves or their friends.

Can there be any question as to why the friendly banter is diminished?

I dont care for the personal attacks ..but when someone asks a legitimate question of someone who has obvious inside info and that person speaks volumes about the merits of an issue but every single time ignores the hard question...then I think he opens himself to more demanding and focused questions....

We seem to be allowing him a pass though..

Its fair to question why this person accepts and promotes a site that has lied to his friends.

Its not cute anymore....I have been cheated....many here have been cheated.....everyone knows it....How can you continue to ignore it or allow it to go unanswered?

If you see someone stealing from me and you ignore it ...does that complicate you in the matter? I think it does...

Perhaps you look at this issue as a "being a little late paying the bill" type of issue...I can accept that... In fact I hope that is all it is...but the more time that passes along with the zero communication about the issue speaks another message...

The friend of my enemy can be my friend....but not if he has some of my missing chips in his pocket.

 

[fgk42]

If you become as good of a BJT players as a writer we are all in trouble!

Don't you mean WHEN