What needs to change for tournament improvements

Mostly casinos in Las Vegas, but I've heard of some STP's banned in Mississippi and Atlantic City as well.

I know Harrah's properties (Harrah's, Rio, Ceasars Palace, Bally's, Flamingo, and IP) have banned several STP's, along with the Orleans, Venetian, Luxor, Wynn's, MGM, Palms, Riveria, Planet Hollywood, Montie Carlo, Green Oaks Ranch, Station casinos, and Golden Nugget are the ones I've heard about and I bet there are several more I haven't heard about.

I know the Las Vegas Hilton had three players banned (one has past a way) because when I was hosting satellite's for their Million Dollar tournament's I had to ban them from the satellite events as well. The old Stardust had banned probably over 40 STP's or more.

 

What exactly are the rules of your blackjack tournament that you don't like? What are the tournament rules you have?
The house does not gain or lose anything by having liberal or strict rules in a tournament. They are tournament chips not house or money chips. Often times blackjack tournaments have a 2% player edge of the top for the player.

 

Most of the Reno blackjack tournaments have what I call "carnival" rules--that's why I rarely play them. The addition of jokers, 2-1 or 3-1 blackjacks, and 5 card charlies increase the luck factor radically. Add that to the small prize pools with no add by the casinos, and you have a social event, not a blackjack tournament.

At least Cal Nevas tournament, although accumulation format, uses regular bj rules--except 2-1 blackjacks that is.

 

Deep deep breath. Cardcounter.

Many players on this site played in the heyday of tournament action. They were live money. Or tournament chips with real money pay outs. TX, McKelvey, Olsen and many other "old timers," tried to compile "likes/dislikes" of tournament play, to no avail or influence on any of the casinos that held them.

Hilton Million Dollar, open to all, or the short lived Ultimate Elimination format were as close to "perfection" as one could get. Find a casino somewhere that approximates that today and you're a winner. Otherwise, as many are posting, BJ tournaments in particular are reverting to the free rewards events for High Rollers. In the past STP's could take advantage of that. Today, not so much.

 

events

My understanding of the rules in Oklahoma is that the Indian casinos can not keep table winnings, but must return them to the players in some fashion, they can only keep the 'fee' they charge on each hand you play in regular table action. So the money they are giving out is not theirs, they must give it away one way or another to the players anyway, so they have no incentive to cut the payout.

Casinos have carnival rules for bj tournaments, because the tournaments aren't profit centers for them, they are pure promotions. That means they want high rollers who aren't good bj players, period. That means maximize the luck factor to keep their high rollers competitive and give them a good time and a chance to win, and, if possible, keep the skilled players out of the tournaments. Unfortunately, some casinos want to make a profit off of their promotions, by allowing players to buy into them, to finance the comps for the high rollers as much as possible. So you buy into a tournament, then have to deal with the carnival rules and favorite treatment for high rollers.

 

There is nothing in the compact about required rakes, fees or charges. The state simply receives 10% of any income the tribes make from table games. The 10% is very cheap when compared to the casino tax rates in other states.

A side note it is a bold face lie that the state requires the tribe to collect a commission from Blackjack and the other table games. Before 11-1-04, it was the only way the tribes could make money from the table games. All money lost by the players had to be returned to the players every quarter in the form of tournaments or other events. But after a tribe accepts the 11-1-04 gaming compact they can charge whatever they want including nothing.

 

Yes there is a huge luck factor in a 25 hand tournament. But there is also a skill factor some people have 8-10% chance of winning while others have less than 1% chance of winning or play so badly they have zero percent chance of winning.

P.S. The tournaments are plus ev for all the players as a whole. I got in for free with an invite so I had nothing to lose and possibly $7,000 to gain. Other people bought into the tournament for $39. There was about 250 people in the tournament so Cal-Neva added thousands of dollars to the tournament because a number of people got free entries and even if everybody paid the $39 entry fee it would still be less than the prize pool of $10,000 plus $1200 in action chips.

 

Yes there is a huge luck factor in a 25 hand tournament. But there is also a skill factor some people have 8-10% chance of winning while others have less than 1% chance of winning or play so badly they have zero percent chance of winning.

P.S. The tournaments are plus ev for all the players as a whole. I got in for free with an invite so I had nothing to lose and possibly $7,000 to gain. Other people bought into the tournament for $39. There was about 250 people in the tournament so Cal-Neva added thousands of dollars to the tournament because a number of people got free entries and even if everybody paid the $39 entry fee it would still be less than the prize pool of $10,000 plus $1200 in action chips.

 

Frontier

Those of us that have been around for a while, have a fond remembrance of "RR's" New Frontier tournaments. I won't take the liberty of posting his name without permission but he did a very nice job setting up the format for their events.
These were live money tourneys with a $200 table buy-in, bets from $5 to $100, early surrender allowed and 30 hand rounds (trusting my memory on that).
I think the $200 live buy-in, $100 max bet and surrender option combined to make this arguably the most "skill advantaged" tournament format I've seen anywhere.

Billy C

 

Agreed

Although I didn't play the New Frontier live money tournaments, I've played $500 per round live money buy-in at the Golden Nugget when they were offered. They certainly separate the men from the boys, you don't see as many stiff hand max bet double downs on the final hand each round, but max bet at the GN was $500. Those tournaments were also about 24-30 hands with late surrender.

 

And as I recall Rookie:

You won a Golden Nugget Live Money Event, which takes, you know. Truly a test of one's "chops." Congrats again.