WSOB IV: Episode 8

Discussion in 'World Series of Blackjack' started by Bi-Kemba, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Bi-Kemba

    Bi-Kemba Member

    Hello to all my fellow players and good people. Do any of you know anything about any of these players tonight?

    July 23
    Marvin Ornstein, Dannye Long, Shannon Elizabeth, Angelo Merkouris, Henry Tran

    I hope this episode is good this evening. Now, I do have one question for all of you. The next episode after this one is the Wild Card show. Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't this the episode where all of the runner-ups of the past eight shows(including tonight) have that opportunity to vie for a spot in the semi-finals? Please explain this. If i'm not mistaken, there are only eight seats anyway right? Please explain. How is everyone doing? Haven't seen too much activity this past weekend. Maybe everyone is enjoying their big winnings. LOL.....Thank you and have a wonderful week you all.
  2. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    Marvin Ornstein and Dannye Long are both very experienced tournament players from Mississippi. Shannon Elizabeth is the celebrity at this table, best known for her role in the movie American Pie. Merkouris qualified at the Silver Legacy in Reno. Henry Tran is making his second WSOB appearance, and has also appeared on TV when he won a World Series of Poker Circuit Event in New Jersey.

    You asked about the wild-card rounds. The 8 second place finishers each get a seat, plus each wild-card table also has a second-chance drawing for the last seat, and all competitors are in the drawing.
  3. noman

    noman Top Member

    Wsob 8

    Verrrrrrry Interesting:

    Homever. Dat Txt deal overlay keeps getting in the way of bet amounts and cards, so that you have to rely on the sometimes misguided words of the announcer.

    Now, I'm sure the txting generates additional revenues for somebody, other than your(all your) phone providers, but just what is the purpose of all that "What will you bet, what do you think the dealer has and I saw tonight these are your cards, but only showed one.

    I don't get the side show.
  4. Bi-Kemba

    Bi-Kemba Member

    Last Nights Episode

    Oh my goodness. I thought last night's episode was one of the best I have ever seen. Simply for the fact that Shannon was really a waste. She had no life in her, but her looks. She was so boring at times. At least the other ladies had something to say. She was a sitting log. Now, the big hand was that one Shannye did. Not staying on the 16 was one of the stupidist things he could've ever done. My wife and daughter was watching that hand with me. That would've sealed the deal. Let me tell you people something. If I ever see you guys do something like that and lose like that at a tournament, then I will pull you to the side and tell you that that is basic strategy. Hell. He had seven blackjacks all night. You want to play really great until you get to the second to last hand. That really disappointed me. Maybe his brain cells were waining because he looks to be older. I really don't think the first guy deserved the money anyway. The reason being? Well, the announcers clearly stated that he is a Casino owner. I don't care if he's generating only $5,000.00 per month in revenue. He's still in a business where many of us aren't blessed to own our own business. I loved the strategy too. Henry didn't stay on some of his hands. He and another player thought the dealer had blackjack. I wouldn't have ever guessed that because if they're playing with eight decks and Shannye had seven blackjacks, then they're are nine Aces left. Many of the other players had blackjacks as welll. I mean, the Aces were gone quickly. Therefore, the dealer doesn't have it. I'm telling you you guys, I think I would really do well in these tournaments becuase I predicted that the dealer would turn over a ten on that five during that second to last hand. I even thought the dealer would get a ten/jack/queen/king to make 25, a bust. Man, I'm in the wrong business of insurance. Well, tell me what do you guys think? I'm curious. Open up the dialogue and lets communicate with each other without hurting each other. God bless....
  5. noman

    noman Top Member

    Bi Kemba:

    Ya, 7 blackjacks and still don't win.

    But as the commentator also stated, he was relying on a running chip count in his head and clearly got lost or miscounted at the end to which he and Mr. Casino, who have played each other often, both acknowledged.

    Everyone, forever, here, the commentators and anything you read....CHIP COUNT. Probably the most important tool in the box, no matter how you employ it for yourself. And, I'm not there, but that is one thing, one can work, work, work, practice, practice, practice, practice anytime they choose.

    And by the way. Marvin was a retired Casino Owner. Either took the money and ran or was induced to sell, probably to Harrah ha ha has.
  6. Bi-Kemba

    Bi-Kemba Member

    You're Preaching to the Choir

    LOL....You must be running into me on Noman. I state that CHIP COUNT is really important whenever I'm in the sit-n-go tournaments on I am finally running into some people that agree that chip count is so overwhelmingly important in tournament play. I don't care what was in the guys head. Yes, I heard that from the commentators. The bottom line. He still lost on a stupid easy basic strategy move. I don't care if he did lose the count. I don't care if his count was ahead or behind. I don't care if hew was trying to play mind games with his opposition. He still made a stupid play that cost him $25,000.00. The only thing he can look forward to is next week when the wild card showdown goes down versus moving automatically to the semifinals. Once again, great point about chip count.
  7. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    Seven 21's...

    Actually Dannye only had 3 blackjack's, but counting those three he had 7 twenty-ones.

    I'm not sure what happened on the last hand, but believe me it is easy to get the numbers messed up in your head. I've done it and I'll be willing to bet most everyone else has as well.

    As it turned out the dealer would have drawn 21 on Dannye anyway, so it didn't matter.

    I can tell you that Dannye, besides being one of the best players around is ALWAY nothing but a gentleman to everybody.

    Besides winning his way on the WSOB at the Golden Moon casino in MS, Dannye has won two major events in the past few months in New Orleans and in Tunica.

    I'd be willing to bet on Dannye in any blackjack tournaments out there. Dannye and Mr. O were by far the best two players at the table and I think Shannon was probably the 2nd best celebrity player behind Orel. She may have been quite, but that was because she was thinking. She just got very unlucky getting swung by the three players she needed to have the same results with.

    Mr. O has been an excellent tournament players for years, and always helps other players with any questions they may have about tournament play.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2007
  8. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member


    I think she tried hard to win. I bet she will make a real good BJT'er if she keeps playing. Maybe she can join team TBJPA. ;)
  9. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    Dannye and Mr O are indeed two of the best tournament players on the circuit. I felt for Dannye when he made this mistake, as I've definitely been there before, most recently in Laughlin. Keeping chip counts in your head is a great addition to your game in my opinion, but when you screw up, you tend to screw up BIG!

    Want a bit of irony?

    In the finals at Pearl River Resort where Dannye won his seat, on the final hand it was down to Dannye and another member here playing for the WSOB seat. Dannye's opponent is another very strong tournament player, but on the last hand he made a chip-counting mistake and made a bet that locked him out, just like Dannye's trouble last night.

    All that aside, congrats to Dannye, Mr O, and Henry for a highly entertaining show. I wasn't too impressed with Shannon's contribution, and despite her "good karma" interview points, she wasn't nearly as friendly as all the other celebs in attendance. Once she suffered the bad beat on this table, she just pouted for the rest of the time in the green room, and was quite obviously not happy to have to hang around. Compared to the friendly personalities of Orel, Caroline, and Penn, she came up short.
  10. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    If Shannon...

    If she wants to continue, as it was mentioned on the show, being a co professional actress/card player she best learn to take a bad beat with a smile. If she doesnt she is toast!:joker:
  11. FMike756

    FMike756 New Member


    I Have Been A Tournament Bj Player For Many Years-most Often In The Miss. Casinos. I Know Both Of The Finalist In Last Nights Game And I Can Attest To The Savy And Skills Of Both Gentleman.
    Along With Ken Smith, These Two Gentlemen, Have Been Pioneers At Tournament Bj For The Southern Area Of The Us, And Have Won Numerous Tournaments Nationwide. One Instant Lapse Of Memory Does Not In Any Way Reduce The Skill Of Dannye .i, Also Am Offended By Member Stating That Ones Skills Must Be Less Because The Participant Is Older Than Many Others At The Table, I Am A Senior Citizen And I Feel Like I Can Compete In This Game As Well As Or Better Than Most People Younger Than Me.
    I Was A Player Seated At The Final Table When Dannye Qualified For The Wsob At The Pearl River Resort. As Ken Mentioned In An Earlier Post, Dannye Was The Recipient Of Of An Opponents Miscount And Advanced To The Wsob. Mr O Was Also Seated At Thistable. In Defense Of The Two Finalist Of Session 8 , I Might Add That Their Opponents Were Stronger In The Qualification Than In The Wsob
  12. RKuczek

    RKuczek Member


    for Dannye - as a few posters on this site can attest - I surrendered to lock in third place at a two advance table at the TBJPA tourney in Laughlin in May - CHIP COUNTING MISTAKE - that Black Chip came out of nowhere :eek: - we have all done it -

    I thought both Marvin and Dannye played very well - up until Dannye obviously blew off on the chip count - I very much liked many of Dannye's plays - very conservative hand playing strategy that worked very well -

    as for Shannon - she can have a seat at my table any time - she can sit right next to Posh:D

    She actually played ok - I thought - especially for someone who I think is fairly inexperienced at TBJ - she is known as a poker player - but we have all been swung on critical hands - a bad beat -
  13. tgun

    tgun Member


    Congrats to Mr.O and Dannye on their first and second place finishes.

    Anyone that has been involved in many live tournaments has seen plenty of great players make mistakes in the heat of battle.

    Mr. O and Dannye are both pros.

    I watched Dannye win Fitz's tournament last month in Tunica and was glad to see him win as he is one of the nicest guys in the bj tourney community.

    I hope these two meet again; at the final table.

  14. arlalik

    arlalik Member

    Marvin's best bet

    Last hand.
    Danny has 197,500 bet 10,000
    Marvin has 228,750 bet ???

    There was a chance that Danny could realize his mistake and try to save the situation.
    Was the 5,000 the best bet for Marvin? Probably not.

    Let's analize different situations. The difference is 31,250.

    1. If Danny is going to win 2 bets, Marvin can lose up to 11,000.

    2. If Danny is going to win 3 bets, Marvin cannot lose even a min. bet (he has to push or win - so he can bet anything ).

    3. If Danny is going to win 4 bets, Marvin needs to win 9,000 or more.

    4. If Danny is going to win 5 bets, Marvin needs to win 19,000 or more.

    Now by betting anything between 19,000 and 22,000 - Marvin can SURRENDER if Danny has only 2 bets out, or play his hand accordingly.
    He can even DD to cover Denny's 6 or 7 bet wins, but for 7 bet win he needs to win 39,000, so 19,000 is not the best option.

    19,500 to 22,000
  15. TXtourplayer

    TXtourplayer Executive Member

    I like Mr. O's $5,000 bet

    You have to draw the line somewhere, you can't cover every situation or you can leave yourself open by over thinking.

    Mr. O's $5,000 bet allowed him a chance to DD, should Dannye catch a split with two DD himself.

    I understand that a $10,000 bet would have been a little better bet (as to you #2 point), but his $5,000 minimum bet wasn't that bad.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  16. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    Mr O's $5000 bet was a minimum bet at that time. The minimum increases from $1000 to $2500 after the first KO hand, and again to $5000 after the second KO hand.

    Arlalik is right of course. There are better bets. However it would be awfully easy to do exactly what Marvin did here. After all, he's more than a little shocked to find himself in this spot. Consider this... When playing an opponent as savvy as Dannye, this looks too good to be true. Marvin probably spent half his allotted time trying to assure himself that HE wasn't the one who had the chip count wrong. Only after settling that can he begin to worry about the best bet size. With limited time left, I can easily imagine just thinking through a 2-bet win by Dannye, and then pushing out a min bet.
  17. Jim P.

    Jim P. Member

    Personal Insults....Dialog Request??

    "Open up the dialog and lets communicate with each other without hurting each other. God bless...."-

    You must be kidding Bi-Kemba!

    Personal Insult Count:
    1. Simply for the fact that Shannon was really a waste. She had no life in her, but her looks. She was so boring at times.
    2. Now, the big hand was that one Shannye did. Not staying on the 16 was one of the stupidest things he could've ever done.
    3. Maybe his brain cells were waining because he looks to be older.
    4. I really don't think the first guy deserved the money anyway. The reason being? Well, the announcers clearly stated that he is a Casino owner. I don't care if he's generating only $5,000.00 per month in revenue. He's still in a business where many of us aren't blessed to own our own business.

    You have no clue Sir regarding decent sportsmanship. These players are under the microscope, nervous, and cranking out enough adrenaline to blurr and fog the most simple calculation. Not one player sitting at a table in a B-Jack tourn. is immune to being human and making even the simplest of mistakes. I know ..... I lost to Shannye on the last hand of the qualifier for this event. I miscounted his checks and he was sitting next to me! My vision blurred several times and I locked on to a statement made by someone in the crowd behind us and I allowed anger to complicate things even more. I have learned a lot from this lesson about myself and others. I try to play the best game I can, SHAKE HANDS! and move on.

    I don't suggest you ever 'pull me aside' and explain anything to me should I make another mistake and this is why: You are bringing ego to the argument instead of contemplative, positive, and constructive strategy! Should you ever join this group of people playing these tournaments you will find we spend more time lifting each other up than knocking each other down!

    Show your fellow player respect and have respect for the game!


    P.S. These insulted players already know that guessing hole card scenarios take a back seat to money management and making the correct bet in a BJack tournament. Gift to you!
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  18. Poppa Goose

    Poppa Goose New Member

    "No stones thrown from this glass house"...

    "Very well said my friend"...It's not necessary to explain your "faux-paus"...Been there, done that & will do it again...The past tourny accomplishments of yourself, Mr. O, & Dannye speak volumes.
  19. Barney Stone

    Barney Stone New Member

    I would have loved...

    to see Mr "O" against Ken Einiger, isnt Mr O the one always competing with Ken E? It would kind of be like seeing Hollywood freeeee loaded to a final table with FGK. :)
  20. Bi-Kemba

    Bi-Kemba Member

    Great Comment

    Jim P, thank you so much for your commentary on this matter. If you respond to my comments, it means it probably, and I mean probably, sparked a nerve. That means people are listening to me. If you have read many of my other post, I will say it again. I have the right to speak my mind. I really value your opinion because it wakes me up to the fact that we all have different opinions. I love it. Keep up the dialogue. I do have respect for the game Jim P. However, many of these players are more than likely the most genuine people off camera and on camera. I went by what I witnessed on camera. Great post.

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