As everyone here knows, I've been an ardent supporter of Bet21 since their launch. In fact, you
might say my support goes further back than that, since I was invited to participate in the beta
testing prior to their launch date. I think the format and the software are the best the tournament
world has ever seen.
But, enough is enough. The problems and unanswered issues from Bet21 have finally ballooned to the
point where I can no longer endorse the site in good conscience. I sincerely hope that these issues
are a mere bump in the road on the way to Bet21's success, but I honestly fear that passage of the
UIGEA may have dealt the concept a death blow.
I have postponed writing this post, perhaps longer than I should have. Frankly, if the problems
experienced at Bet21 had occurred at any other online casino, I would have blasted them time and time
again for their practices. With Bet21, I was more sympathetic because I understood the impact that
the legal situation posed, and I had such high hopes for eventual success. Nonetheless, this post
is overdue. As I said, enough is enough.
The unresolved issues, as I see them:
Communication: This is really the root of the whole problem. The other three tournament blackjack sites
online all have representatives visiting this board who respond to questions and concerns. Global
Player, Get21, and Blackjack21 each have occasionally posted information here in an official capacity.
Bet21 has instead chosen to remain silent while requests for information go unanswered.
JoeP and Hollywood Dave both chose to pass along information they were provided about the bonus issue,
but they were apparently misled. I suspect both regret having posted what they believed at the time
to be true.
Customer Support: Time and time again, we have seen inept responses from customer support. Yes, we all
understand that Bet21 support is actually Ultimate Bet, and that explains a lot of why the responses
aren't often relevant for blackjack play. Poker is, and will apparently always be, the vast majority
of play at UB. Nonetheless, there is no excuse for the poor handling of matter after matter by the
Bet21 CS staff. When it takes a player a dozen emails to get tournament dollars credited to his account,
there is plainly a problem that needs addressing.
The dreaded bonus money: When Bet21 officially launched, I deposited the max $650 to gain the maximum
bonus. I knew that no matter how slowly they decided to convert over bonus money through real play,
I would eventually get the entire $650 benefit. Their site clearly designated blackjack tournament play
as eligible for converting bonus dollars and it still does in the cashier. We all understand that
the profitability of Bet21 in the post-UIGEA era is decidely different. That doesn't change the fact
that many players deposited to get this promised benefit. I think a reasonable compromise would be
to make the bonus conversion rate very, very low. Perhaps convert 1 bonus dollar for every $10,000 in
tournament entry fees paid. However, make it retroactive to day one. I think that would silence the
critics, allowing the promise to be kept with minimal financial cost to Bet21. $1 per $10K of entry fees
is essentially a rebate of just 1% of your tournament rake. If the software can't handle it, have someone
manually run the reports and credit the accounts once per month.
[ Note: Payments are no longer an issue. See the next message in this thread for details ]
Speed of payments: Recent reports of slow pay on big withdrawals are quite disturbing.
Whether related or not, the recent merger of UB and Absolute Poker coincides with a change in the
cashier facility in Bet21, and the removal of Courier service for check delivery. Gambling online
already requires a huge leap of faith, and any slowness in payouts can rapidly dissolve a site's good
reputation. Adding payment uncertainty to the ever-present fear of non-random games is a recipe for
disaster.
[ Seating may not be an issue any longer either. ]
The seating issue: The recent software change that impacts seating assignments in Sit and Gos is a
show-stopping problem in my opinion. It is clear that the software is not assigning the seats in a
random fashion, and that gives some players a big edge while others are playing at a huge disadvantage.
Now we don't know whether the effect is accidental or intentional, but we do know it is completely
unacceptable. This is a problem big enough in my opinion to warrant a non-stop effort on the part
of the software developers until it is resolved. Because of the major importance that position plays
in this game, this problem creates a completely unfair game at the moment. This should be priority
one until it is resolved.
Summary: Any of these issues taken alone is relatively minor, but taken together they give the
impression that Bet21 is either willfully or through incompetence unable to service their
customer base in an acceptable fashion. Perhaps the management has decided that it is unwilling to
devote more time and money to a project that apparently is not going to be the wild success that
it was initially projected to be. Perhaps they've already "left the building", and Bet21 will
wither on the vine. Regardless, I can no longer be silent about the seriousness of the issues.
Personally, I have been quite successful at the site, and I've made several substantial withdrawals.
Still, with the non-random seating situation and the other issues, I have made the decision to stop
playing at the site, effective immediately. I withdrew my remaining balance this morning. I hope
to be able to deposit again in the future, when these issues have been resolved to everyone's
satisfaction.
might say my support goes further back than that, since I was invited to participate in the beta
testing prior to their launch date. I think the format and the software are the best the tournament
world has ever seen.
But, enough is enough. The problems and unanswered issues from Bet21 have finally ballooned to the
point where I can no longer endorse the site in good conscience. I sincerely hope that these issues
are a mere bump in the road on the way to Bet21's success, but I honestly fear that passage of the
UIGEA may have dealt the concept a death blow.
I have postponed writing this post, perhaps longer than I should have. Frankly, if the problems
experienced at Bet21 had occurred at any other online casino, I would have blasted them time and time
again for their practices. With Bet21, I was more sympathetic because I understood the impact that
the legal situation posed, and I had such high hopes for eventual success. Nonetheless, this post
is overdue. As I said, enough is enough.
The unresolved issues, as I see them:
Communication: This is really the root of the whole problem. The other three tournament blackjack sites
online all have representatives visiting this board who respond to questions and concerns. Global
Player, Get21, and Blackjack21 each have occasionally posted information here in an official capacity.
Bet21 has instead chosen to remain silent while requests for information go unanswered.
JoeP and Hollywood Dave both chose to pass along information they were provided about the bonus issue,
but they were apparently misled. I suspect both regret having posted what they believed at the time
to be true.
Customer Support: Time and time again, we have seen inept responses from customer support. Yes, we all
understand that Bet21 support is actually Ultimate Bet, and that explains a lot of why the responses
aren't often relevant for blackjack play. Poker is, and will apparently always be, the vast majority
of play at UB. Nonetheless, there is no excuse for the poor handling of matter after matter by the
Bet21 CS staff. When it takes a player a dozen emails to get tournament dollars credited to his account,
there is plainly a problem that needs addressing.
The dreaded bonus money: When Bet21 officially launched, I deposited the max $650 to gain the maximum
bonus. I knew that no matter how slowly they decided to convert over bonus money through real play,
I would eventually get the entire $650 benefit. Their site clearly designated blackjack tournament play
as eligible for converting bonus dollars and it still does in the cashier. We all understand that
the profitability of Bet21 in the post-UIGEA era is decidely different. That doesn't change the fact
that many players deposited to get this promised benefit. I think a reasonable compromise would be
to make the bonus conversion rate very, very low. Perhaps convert 1 bonus dollar for every $10,000 in
tournament entry fees paid. However, make it retroactive to day one. I think that would silence the
critics, allowing the promise to be kept with minimal financial cost to Bet21. $1 per $10K of entry fees
is essentially a rebate of just 1% of your tournament rake. If the software can't handle it, have someone
manually run the reports and credit the accounts once per month.
[ Note: Payments are no longer an issue. See the next message in this thread for details ]
Speed of payments: Recent reports of slow pay on big withdrawals are quite disturbing.
Whether related or not, the recent merger of UB and Absolute Poker coincides with a change in the
cashier facility in Bet21, and the removal of Courier service for check delivery. Gambling online
already requires a huge leap of faith, and any slowness in payouts can rapidly dissolve a site's good
reputation. Adding payment uncertainty to the ever-present fear of non-random games is a recipe for
disaster.
[ Seating may not be an issue any longer either. ]
The seating issue: The recent software change that impacts seating assignments in Sit and Gos is a
show-stopping problem in my opinion. It is clear that the software is not assigning the seats in a
random fashion, and that gives some players a big edge while others are playing at a huge disadvantage.
Now we don't know whether the effect is accidental or intentional, but we do know it is completely
unacceptable. This is a problem big enough in my opinion to warrant a non-stop effort on the part
of the software developers until it is resolved. Because of the major importance that position plays
in this game, this problem creates a completely unfair game at the moment. This should be priority
one until it is resolved.
Summary: Any of these issues taken alone is relatively minor, but taken together they give the
impression that Bet21 is either willfully or through incompetence unable to service their
customer base in an acceptable fashion. Perhaps the management has decided that it is unwilling to
devote more time and money to a project that apparently is not going to be the wild success that
it was initially projected to be. Perhaps they've already "left the building", and Bet21 will
wither on the vine. Regardless, I can no longer be silent about the seriousness of the issues.
Personally, I have been quite successful at the site, and I've made several substantial withdrawals.
Still, with the non-random seating situation and the other issues, I have made the decision to stop
playing at the site, effective immediately. I withdrew my remaining balance this morning. I hope
to be able to deposit again in the future, when these issues have been resolved to everyone's
satisfaction.
Last edited:
