Help me, help you!

TXtourplayer

TXtourplayer

Executive Member
I feel the the TBJPA has some of the best and most complete set of rules for blackjack tournaments anywhere. I think most of you would agree that once we get past the normal rules the hardest rules to agree on is that of the dealers error.

The TBJPA has made may efforts to eliminate as many dealers errors as possible, such as the surrender cards, the backing up of cards for the orignal first two cards to the players and dealer, and face up double downs.

However, there is still room for improvement. Dealers playing the players hands for them is probably one of the worst, example:

A player has a 20 and the dealer just passes them by and hits the next players hand. Or assuming that a player is doubling on 5/5 when they may need 3 bets to win and clearly wanted to split the hand.

My questions are what other situation are there where a dealer has or could disdeal and what suggestion if any do you have to correct this problem?

The TBJPA isn't about what Rick Jensen wants or likes, it is about what it's members want and like (at least the majority).

If any member or even if you not yet a member, please contact me if you ever have a question about a rule or a suggesten to improve on a rule or issue. I love hearing your feedback, and if I do hear any good ones I will post and give you full credit for the concept.

Thanks all,
 
Dealers should be instructed to be very deliberate and never move forward until a clear signal is given by the player whose turn it is to act on a hand. Many times the decision seems simple, but we know people do "strange" things in tournament play. Dealers just do not need to assume anything.
 
I agree, but...

Exactly what I am talking about, but how can we keep the dealers from assuming? Most of them are not trained properly by the casinos, if they were this would be a mood point for most events. The problem is most dealers have either never dealt a tournament format or don't want to deal the tournaments because they don't make as much.

I have seen several cases where they are only shown how to deal the tournament format within an hour of when they are scheduled to deal the event. As both a player and promoter I want the best possible dealers, I don't want to feel that a dealer was the cause of me not advancing or winning an event.

The one thing I have seen that seems to work is the extra chip sale at the first of the round. Every player throws in an extra $5 before the round starts and they get an extra $100 in chips with the money all going to the dealers.

It many not be the best way, but I don't mind it that much and it seems to attract the better dealers to deal the tournaments. Now I am only talking about the first round and re-buy rounds, and all additional tipping to be made by the winners.

After all if you have invested $300 plus for an entry fee, then $5 or even $10 more dollars to try and assure no dealing mistakes seem like a small investment to make. And if it assure us with the best possible dealers then the events are run much smoother as well not having to correct mis-deals.
 
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I don't think forced tipping is the answer to dealers avoiding mistakes - though I don't object to seeing that dealers get some modest tips -upfront - but if tipping is what is needed to get a dealer to do their job properly - then I don't want that dealer anyway - I tip because the dealer did a good job - not to bribe him/her not to do a bad job

I think the issue is simply dealers being well trained and doing their jobs properly - and that is something the casino owes to its customers - to see that the games are dealt well - and you shouldn't have to tip to get decent job performance -

another issue - not brought up - but very important - is dealers keeping accurate track of what hand is being dealt and who is on the button - I have run into this a few times recently - where either the dealer lost track of what hand it was - or missplaced the button - or forgot to move the button, etc. - this actually seems like a pretty common dealer error -

at Viejas recently - I had to argue for a couple minutes, and have the pit boss come over - to convince the dealer she had counted a hand twice - and the mistake would have put me on the button on the last hand - instead of betting last - so not minor - getting the correct button position mader the difference between my advancing or not, most likely - tracking hands and button position seems to be confusing for many dealers - especially when players try to be 'helpful' and move the button for the dealer - or flip over a hand count -

as far as misdealt/skipped/etc hands - just burn everything after the mistake - and resume dealing from the misdealt/skipped hand - only thing that is fair to all -
 
Chip buy

is a taxation on the player. It is another way of adding to the cumulative fee to play. Then it wont even repair the deficiency in dealer experience dealing a tourney. I have a lot of sympathy for dealers at tournament tables because they have no practice. Dealing a tourney is harder than regular play. If we are playing at a casino that doesnt offer mini tournaments we have a good chance the dealer is low on experience. Errors will be made. Chip buys are good for the dealers because they secure tokes, but I cant in anyway see how they will assure dealers dont make an error.

Also, lets take River Palms where we had a 500 starting BR. I think thats perfect. Now lets say we have a buy up for en extra 100$. That expands the chip stack and opens player risk potential. Starting at 600 makes it less likely wildcats and progression players go broke. I really like the starting 500 with 200 min bet.
 
TXtourplayer said:
The one thing I have seen that seems to work is the extra chip sale at the first of the round. Every player throws in an extra $5 before the round starts and they get an extra $100 in chips with the money all going to the dealers.
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Just so I'm clear about this:

No Friggin Way!

There are already enough fees for the TBJPA that this should not even be CONSIDERED as an option.

Now I know how the Bostonians felt about that tea party they had.

Bad Idea
 
Barney Stone said:
is a taxation on the player. It is another way of adding to the cumulative fee to play.
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AMEN

Barney stone said:
Also, lets take River Palms where we had a 500 starting BR. I think thats perfect. Now lets say we have a buy up for en extra 100$. That expands the chip stack and opens player risk potential. Starting at 600 makes it less likely wildcats and progression players go broke. I really like the starting 500 with 200 min bet.
Click to expand...

WHAT? An extra $100 in chip totals had no effect of progression or wildcat players. It means this:

1. Players who don't pay the extra $5 are at a disadvantage so everyone will be forced to do it - i.e., hidden taxes
2. The max bet will still be $200 so that the limit decreases from a 40% to a 33% restriction - further favoring the more conservative players - not my style.
 
No forced tipping...

Before this gets out of hand, I am not planning any forced tipping for the TBJPA, I was only asking about ways to assure dealers acturacy.

When I was writting the orignal post, I was thinking about fgk's post about the event he resently played in where he over heard dealers complaning about having to deal the tournament.

Now on the Blackjack cruise, I will have a $5 per player fee for the extra chips and dealers tips, but this will only be for the sit & go events or any mini-tournaments, NOT for the main events.

Reason for the $5 fee is the sit & go and mini-tournaments will be dealt by the dealers on their off time. They are booked for the main events and deal the others to make extra money.
 
Max Bet As Percentage Of Bankroll

fgk42 said:
2. The max bet will still be $200 so that the limit decreases from a 40% to a 33% restriction - further favoring the more conservative players - not my style.
Click to expand...

As the max bet taken as a percentage of the bankroll decreases, it becomes easier to recover from lost max bets. This favors aggressive, not conservative, players. Examples:

1. If an aggressive player wins several hands. It takes less max bets for the conservative player to catch up.

2. If a bomber loses. If the max bet is small compared to bankroll he/she still has bankroll left to keep bombing away and hopefully catch a few cards.

In my very first tournament the starting bankroll was 500 and the max bet was 150. Some guy at my first table started bombing away with max bets and went up and down until he got up by a couple max bets. Then he sat on it. It became a max bet lottery. The format favored aggressive players.

Take a look at what happens on UBT if the bankrolls get over six figures. A lot of players start bombing away because they're much less likely to bust out. The max bet being a small percentage of the bankroll is favoring aggressive play here also.
 
an idea

Rick...

As you know, I have been lobbying for one rule change...the addition of a mulligan chip.

Why not sell the mulligan chip, say for $5-10 per tournament, with the money going to the dealers.
 
Just Say No...

Fredguy,

I'll vote with you on the mulligan/power chip idea as I like having another "tool" in my arsenal when playing.

Now the BJT purists will disagree with me and hey that's ok. We can agree to disagree (now ;) no one will bite you)

BUT....

Why add the fee? If the mulligan is offered EVERYONE would buy it so all it does is inflate the fees involved and for what? Why should you or I PAY for a plastic "twiddly wink"?

There are fees for running a BJT. On that I think we can all agree. What is rarely, if ever explained to players is the policy toward the dealers. To be honest with you I was never aware about tipping in a BJT until recently. To have 3% of the pot withheld is, in my opinion, more than reasonable and for high limit events, excessive.

Tips to the dealers should be done AFTER, if at all, the completion of the work. When going to a restaurant do you tip the waitress/waiter when you get seated at the table? How do you decide how much to leave? 10%, 15%, 20% or more? I make that decision based on the level of service. Better service, a smile, menu suggestions, checking on needs, etc. earns them better tips.

I've had very pleasant dealers and some rather NASTY ones - they're human after all just like the rest of us. However just turning over cards, the job that they are paid to do, doesn't entitle them to a tip. I know that this is a topic where lots of people have different ideas and I'm open to many but a "forced" tip, on top of fees paid, is extortion and ranks right up there with 6:5 BJ and CSM, just my .25
 
That Mulligan

idea has upset my stomach. Or maybe it was my visit to "Joes Crab Shake" at lav.com that has my stomach twisting this am :vomit:

;) :D
 
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