Pioneer (Laughlin NV) Results

[dreamer]

Just returned home from a "great" BJ Tourney in Laughlin at the Pioneer. The turnout for this Tourney was pretty good in comparison to their tournaments of the recent past. Not sure exactly how many participants and rebuys we had, but the Finals paid approximately $7,700 for First Place and $3,300 for Second. The other four Finalists received prize money with Third Place getting $998 and 4th-6th negligible amounts.

It was so good to see some old friends again and make some new acquaintances while at the Pioneer. Many of the local regular players from Vegas were in attendance, including but not limited to; the Fred and Sam duo, Rock-N-Roll Darrell, Jamie Root, Jerry Gibson and his wife, the Merritts, Alex and his wife Connie, and various others. In addition, it was great to finally meet Barney Stone and chat with him a bit.

The Tournament buy-in was $200, with additional rebuys available as needed for $100. The First Round consisted of 6 players per table with the winner advancing to the Semi-Finals guaranteeing them $200. The Semi-Finals consisted of 6 players per table, with the top 2 advancing to the Finals.

Needless to say, I was very pleased to make it to the Final Table with Jamie Root, Jerry Gibson and Darlene Merritt (She's such a sweetheart!).

While I was able to talk to the cards, they really didn't cooperate, as I was dealt 13 "stiff" hands out of the first 15 hands. Down to my last $100 from my starting bankroll of $500, I was able to build it back up to $400 before ultimately busting out before the last 5 hands. Both the Winner and Second Place finishers were "Laughlin Locals" who played very well.

The next Tournament at the Pioneer will be in June, and I highly recommend the Tournament if you happen to be in the area during that time frame. I believe it's during the first weekend in June, but please consult the Tournament Schedule on this Website for confirmation.

As a side note, I noticed that the Ramada Express in Laughlin will be hosting a "3-Round Accumulation Tournament" on March 18-20 for a $79 Entry Fee. First Place is guaranteed $8,000 with additional Prizes through 150 Places I believe. Room rates in their newly remodeled hotel are going for $20 per night, as a special Tournament Rate. Think I'll give this a try, as I did fairly well the last time I played in this Tournament about 3 years ago and won $800. Fred Hielmann won $2,500 as I recall during the same tournament. This is not one of my "favorite" formats as tournaments go, but one can get a Goose egg for one round and still finish at the top with a good score from the other 2 rounds.

Hope to see you in Laughlin, and if not there, wherever our paths may cross in the future...

Everyone make it a productive and successful week...

Skipper AKA "Dreamer"

 

[dreamer]

Finalists at the Pioneer...

My apologies for forgetting to Post the Final Results. They were as follows:

1. Laughlin Local $7,700

2. Laughlin Local $3,300

3. Darlene Merritt $998

4. Jamie Root $680?

5. Jerry Gibson $491?

6. Yours Truely $376

 

[TXtourplayer]

Congratulations Dreamer

Sorry you didn't place higher, but anytime you make a final table in a major event it is worth getting congratulated.

This is your second final table in as many months (a 1st place finish in one of the Tulsa events last month). Seems like you maybe getting on a little bit of a roll.

Also congratulations to Darlene Merritt (your right, she is a Sweetheart), Jamie Root, and Jerry Gibson.

It sounded like a fun final table, not knowing who the locals were, but all the players named are very nice players.

 

[Lou 714]

Would it be correct to assume by your post Dreamer that if you had to rebuy and you finished last you lost money in this tournament. If you finished 5th you only made $91 profit not including your addition expenses.

Tournaments that don't take this in to consideration are very frustrating to play in.Top heavy tournaments are not good for the game, yes they produce bigger winners which the casino can boast about but what about the rest of the field that spent 2 days on their property, made a final table yet still lost money?

This in itself we eventually kill the game from developing new players who may get turned off to this situation occurring to them.

Isn't a major event considered any tournament with a 10,000 first prize or higher.It seems a lot of the Las Vegas players stayed home to play the Golden Nugget which had a 100,000 prize pool with a 50,000 first place payout.The entry fee for the Nugget was $500 as opposed to $200 for the Pioneer a pretty big difference in prize pools.

A few players from Bet21 were in attendance who had no previous play at the Nugget and participated in this tournament which allowed them to pay the $500 entry fee.The invited players entry fees were comped by the Nugget.This is a good way to have tournaments that the casino can invite players to but also open it up to new players who then have a chance to establish themselves at the host property for future events.

 

[TXtourplayer]

Actually 6th would win $76, after a rebuy...

Lou, Dreamer posted the entry was only $200 and rebuy was $100, so should 6th had to re-buy the total would only have been $300 minus the prize money for 6th - $376 would equal + $76.00 for 6th place (less expenses).

However I do agree with you about top heavy tournaments. I actually think that even semifinalist should make money in these tournaments as well (they did pay back $200 for semifinalist in this event). The more players who win money, the more likely they are to come play in more events.

Now playing devils advocate, where do we cut from the final prize money to fund the semifinalist winnings?

In both my blackjack cruise and TBT events, I try to reward the semifinalist, however if to much is cut from the final table it just waters down the event.

Bottomline is to host affordable events where more prize money is offered through out the tournament, we need more players and re-buys.

Another problem is so many casinos offer tournaments that conflict with one another. This is a catch 22, it is good to have more tournaments, but at the same time they are dividing the players at different events.

 

[Lou 714]

If you reread Dreamers post he said additional rebuys available as needed which would indicate to me you could rebuy at least 2 times if not more which would be consistent with my original numbers.Sorry if you were confused

But even a $76 win for making a final table is HOGWASH.Unless of course the players in Laughlin are use to playing for pennies.

Was Barney there? if so that explains itself

 

[TXtourplayer]

Would it be correct to assume by your post Dreamer that if you had to rebuy and you finished last you lost money in this tournament.

I was replying to your post Lou. If you re-read your post, you stated a single re-buy as noted above.

But to avoid an arguement, yes you are correct that should a player had to re-buy multiple times then they could make the finals in 6th place in lose money.

But then look at every tournament we play in, if we don't make the money we would have been better off not even playing. That's why they call it gambling...LOL.

As far as who is at any event is very important, we need as many players as possible to make these events successful. I don't care if we agree with their opinions or even like them, we need to learn to play together for the best possible player turnouts in these tournaments.

 

[dreamer]

Lou 714 "aka Joep"

Appreciate your concern Mr. Lou 714 (Joe Pane), but rest assured that a great time was had by all, including myself, and I'm very happy with my trip to the Finals. Didn't even have to use a rebuy. (LOL)''

Perhaps you might try playing for some pennies Big Lou. Once you taste a little bit of success, you can then consider playing with some of the big boys like myself in the very near future in tournaments where the financial benefits are much greater . It will take some effort on your part, but I'm confident that you may be able to compete in the long run, if you will only dress for success... (LMAOOL)

Skipper

P.S. Be sure to let all of us know how the Nugget worked out for you. I'm dying to hear... (LOL) Perhaps I can give out the number to a very good Therapist if needed.

 

[TXtourplayer]

I agree 100%, but...

Isn't a major event considered any tournament with a 10,000 first prize or higher.It seems a lot of the Las Vegas players stayed home to play the Golden Nugget which had a 100,000 prize pool with a 50,000 first place payout.The entry fee for the Nugget was $500 as opposed to $200 for the Pioneer a pretty big difference in prize pools.

A few players from Bet21 were in attendance who had no previous play at the Nugget and participated in this tournament which allowed them to pay the $500 entry fee.The invited players entry fees were comped by the Nugget.This is a good way to have tournaments that the casino can invite players to but also open it up to new players who then have a chance to establish themselves at the host property for future events.

From what I was told, the Golden Nugget was an invite only. I am sure several of the players at the Pioneer would have rather played in the Golden Nugget event had they been able to get in.

Now I agree 100% with what you are saying Lou, a similar situation came up last week at the Palms VIP event. I know several players that posted they would have attended that tournament had they been able to get in.

Unfortunately a casino has the right to host VIP tournaments with invited guess only no matter how much we disagree if it is fair or not. We can only hope the casinos will open them up for everybody and not just when they need extra players.

 

[London Colin]

But then look at every tournament we play in, if we don't make the money we would have been better off not even playing. That's why they call it gambling...LOL.

Moreover, I don't really see any problem with multiple (or even just a single) rebuys giving a total cost greater than what you might win if you place towards the bottom end of the final table.

After a loss, rebuying is like entering a new tournament (with the added advantage that you are already there so have no additional expenses, and also that the buy-in may be less - e.g., half.)

The money that has been lost on previous rounds does not really belong in the calculation. If it was a good deal to buy into the tournament for $200, then it's an even better deal for $100. The alternative is to walk away and spend $200 the next time you enter a similar tournament.

There may be psychological issues to consider. I agree it's hard to feel like a winner when you've got less money than you started with, but I'd be more upset if I were to be denied an additional rebuy because a tournament was limiting the number available, just to ensure that no 'winner' could lose money overall.

Of course I've never actually travelled beyond my living room to play, which may affect my thinking.

 

[toolman1]

After a loss, rebuying is like entering a new tournament (with the added advantage that you are already there so have no additional expenses, and also that the buy-in may be less - e.g., half.)

The money that has been lost on previous rounds does not really belong in the calculation. If it was a good deal to buy into the tournament for $200, then it's an even better deal for $100. The alternative is to walk away and spend $200 the next time you enter a similar tournament.

Absolutely RIGHT ON. This is why virtually all seasoned players will rebuy if a rebuy is available. If wild cards are available in large numbers and the prize pool is relatively small then a rebuy may be considered of negative value. But that's another scenario.

 

[Rando21]

A 200 dollar entry for the listed top prize seems weak to me....yes you have a 1 in 6 ??? shot at getting your 200 back and that ok but shouldnt a top prize near 25,000 be the correct amount for a entry fee of this size? I thought I read about 180 entrants....maybe Im all wrong about these numbers.

Personally I wouldnt invest 200 for a shot at such a small prize...but Ive never played this getting 200 back in semis situation..

Is it a good deal? Or is ther a better bet..;-)

 

[RKuczek]

pioneer tourneys

I wasn't able to make this tourney at the Pioneer - but did make the last one - this is a nice little tourney - very well run - they advetrtise it as a $25,000 tourney - but the one I played - they had only 36 entries - with rebuys available - some players managed two rebuys - I was able to get only one - as they limited them - total of 36 entries and 36 rebuys = prize pool of - $10,800 - this is clearly not a major - just an expensive mini - in fact - I have played a few tourneys with bigger prize pools for lower entry fees - but I do like the idea that if you make a semi - you win back your entry fee - and - I think that if the prize pool is larger - than they even out the pay outs more - seems as if they try to keep the top prize up if the prize pool is small - meaning the other pay outs drop lower -

still - a nice, fun tourney -

 

[Joep]

The Truth

TXtourplayer
From what I was told, the Golden Nugget was an invite only. I am sure several of the players at the Pioneer would have rather played in the Golden Nugget event had they been able to get in.

Well what you were told was wrong.Let me once again set the record straight. I personally helped 2 players get into the Nugget,a third player who I was also assisting decide that he would not play in the last moments before the tournament started.Both these players had never had any rated play in the past at the Nugget.They were allowed to play as long as they paid the $500 entry fee. Some of these players were told if their play was sufficient they would receive their $500 entry fee back a very fair deal from the casino.The majority of the field was rated players of the Golden Nugget that had received an invitation,I personally saw more than a few players pay the $500 instead of going to Laughlin and paying $200 for a much smaller prize pool.Plus at least in Las Vegas once you are done with the tournament there is a lot more to do then being stuck in Laughlin playing for small stakes .

Now i have played the Pioneer in the past when there was not a bigger tournament scheduled in Las Vegas and when the Laughlin Golden Nugget was running one also on the same weekend.Then I would venture the 90 miles to Laughlin.

In a side not the 2 players I helped get into the tournament Joey Bagels and Kaminari from Bet21 played in the semi finals along with me and Walt H.

I was fortunate enough to make it to the Finals and I will post about the final hand that I was involved with soon.

 

[Joep]

Once A Clown Always A Clown

Appreciate your concern (Joe Pane)

Perhaps you might try playing for some pennies . Once you taste a little bit of success, you can then consider playing with some of the big boys like myself in the very near future in tournaments where the financial benefits are much greater .

Since you mentioned my name in a response to Lou 714 let me take the liberty to respond back to you.

I will play tournaments for all stakes if thats what it takes to make them successful.You will even see me playing on Bet21.com for small stakes as low as $10. I will play almost all levels of entry fees at Bet21.com because I will support a site that has given us all the opportunity to play 24 hours a day from the comforts of our homes.We have never had this before and I personally will support something that is good for all of us

Now as far as tasting success this my friend is where you are speaking with no expertise.I have had more than my share of success in tournaments and I consider myself very fortunate to have won more than my share.Now I will tell you there are not to many players that work harder than I do to promote tournament, try to bring back canceled tournaments(Hilton's-Million Dollar Tournament) and (The Frontier Tournament)study my ass off to make myself better and also help a few players along the way that have asked me for help.All I might add without ever charging anyone for my help or time spent in these ventures.

For you to take unwarranted shots at me and my success speaks volumes about your character.You had the nerve to criticize Kenny Smith a few days ago shame on you.Your contribution to the tournament world consist of screaming at the top of your lugs and putting on a clown mask on National TV nothing else..You continue to make a mockery of a game that a few of us take serious.

If you really want to play with the Big Boys grow up learn how to play and act like a professional, and play with your own money.If someone is crazy enough to put their money on you, give them my number because they will be getting a lot more bang for their buck if they sponsor me.

Skipper :joker:

P.S. Be sure to let all of us know how the Nugget worked out for you. I'm dying to hear... (LOL) Perhaps I can give out the number to a very good Therapist if needed.

Since you asked and thanks for asking. I made the Final table at the Nugget in a field of over 250 players some of them even can be considered "Big Boys"

Now as far as who needs a therapist, babies talk to stuff animals and thats Ok. But grown men who scream and talk to the cards are in dire need of some sort of mental help.Take a long LQQK in the mirror but remember to take your clown mask off before you "LQQK" I wouldn't want you to scare yourself.Your play has some of us losing hair from scratching our heads in amazement.

See if you remember this play you make a bet to take first low and have enough bet to take a high so far so good, you are dealt a hard 16 vs. a dealer 10.Instead of taking the "Free Hit" you surrendered to have "More" of the low.Next card was a 5 for 21 and you would have advanced to qualify for the Hilton's Million Dollar Tournament that had a 1,000 entry fee that someone put up for you OUCH!!!. How do you find these sponsors? Better stick to your $10 tournaments at the Longhorn where in some time in the future you might actually figure out how to play this game.



Know your limits :joker:


Joep

 

[TXtourplayer]

Golden Nugget is now an Open event?

TXtourplayer
From what I was told, the Golden Nugget was an invite only. I am sure several of the players at the Pioneer would have rather played in the Golden Nugget event had they been able to get in.

Well what you were told was wrong.Let me once again set the record straight. I personally helped 2 players get into the Nugget,a third player who I was also assisting decide that he would not play in the last moments before the tournament started.Both these players had never had any rated play in the past at the Nugget.They were allowed to play as long as they paid the $500 entry fee. Some of these players were told if their play was sufficient they would receive their $500 entry fee back a very fair deal from the casino.The majority of the field was rated players of the Golden Nugget that had received an invitation,I personally saw more than a few players pay the $500 instead of going to Laughlin and paying $200 for a much smaller prize pool.

Joep congratulations on your 4th place finish and your $5,000 win.

Above I am not sure what you are saying, is the Golden Nugget is an Open event now or only if someone in the tournament can get you in to play?

My post just refected what I was told by a few players trying to get in the Golden Nugget tournament. From what I heard and what you posted, it sounds more like it was an invite event unless you had help getting in?

It would be a very good situation for ALL players if the Golden Nugget tournaments are indeeded now Open to all players. I for one hope this is true. I'll bet the players who went to Laughlin didn't know about this, (if it was an Open event) or they would have played the Golden Nugget.

This is great news if your correct, thanks Joep and again congratulations.

 

[Barney Stone]

My turn

Let me start by saying it is a mark of a coward to use two alias during a bashing session. Also, it is a mark of a coward or be it insincere if he chooses to coddle one avenue and chastise another. For the life of me I cant understand how one whom thinks he is a pin that furthers BJT chooses to break it down on every avenue besides his own.

Pure and simple, the game at the Pioneer yields the lower side with payouts to the semi finalist of which I got my entry fee back with no rebuys. This means the tourney cost me 20$. I spent 25$ at the Edgewater mini to make the semis. They could reduce the semi payouts to 50% and upload the final table pay scale. I personally like the way it is. I dont have a lot of experience but I like it so thats it.

The overall cost to play would likely be much lower than in Vegas, Laughlin is a slow and easy place to relax. Its on a river that offers water sports and such. It is in a way Palm Springs with a river running thru it. JMO but it is a great vacation spot that is very affordable. If you had gone to the Golden Nugget you likely would have spent much more money on your trip. For example, if you chose to stay two nights at the Pioneer Motel it would have cost you, without rated play, 54$. Im not sure but GN is likely much higher. The event at Pioneer is one day so that can also reduce your hours in casino which can save you money. But, Pioneer table blackjack offers good games with good rules. As a matter of fact for BJ player Laughlin is a much better place to play because they need to fill vacancy so they offer better games.

Be as it will, as Ken says "there is always a better bet" there is also always a better game. But when you add up all the nick knacks maybe the truth is each are a good value in this case. 49 non invite players vs smoke and mirrors maybe a couple non invite players out of 250. Raw odds 24/49 to walk away even to whatever. Maybe a cowards tongue can chastise and belittle, but a game is a game. I had a great time, played blackjack that had good rules, ate good food, walked with my baby on the river, came home 575$ more than I left with and had some laughs with some BJT notables. I thank thy blackjack god for all of it.