Should Kenny Make Ghost Disappear ?
- Thread starter Joep
- Start date
Hollywood
New Member
Lord of the Flies
Tough call here. I just trashed him right back (as have a few of us by now) -- but the one saving grace he has is this concept of free speech. There is such a fine line between moderating a board, and punishing unpopular speech. By the same rules of engagement, Joe and I were made unwelcome on Wong's board not too long ago -- and to some, he and i fit the same patterns here on Ken's site. We may be friends but not everyone will get that from reading some of our exchanges.
I say let Ghost continue, not out of wanting to condone his self-serving posts, but rather as an example of free speech. We don't have to feed his BS, if we ignore it, he will get bored and go away. Unlike other spammers who post links to junk systems or products, Ghost hasn't provided a link, price, or even title for whatever lame book he's publishing. So i say until he does that, we should tolerate -- but not feed -- his antics.
Unpopular opinion, i know, but i'm trying to look at the bigger picture here.
-holly d.
Tough call here. I just trashed him right back (as have a few of us by now) -- but the one saving grace he has is this concept of free speech. There is such a fine line between moderating a board, and punishing unpopular speech. By the same rules of engagement, Joe and I were made unwelcome on Wong's board not too long ago -- and to some, he and i fit the same patterns here on Ken's site. We may be friends but not everyone will get that from reading some of our exchanges.
I say let Ghost continue, not out of wanting to condone his self-serving posts, but rather as an example of free speech. We don't have to feed his BS, if we ignore it, he will get bored and go away. Unlike other spammers who post links to junk systems or products, Ghost hasn't provided a link, price, or even title for whatever lame book he's publishing. So i say until he does that, we should tolerate -- but not feed -- his antics.
Unpopular opinion, i know, but i'm trying to look at the bigger picture here.
-holly d.
ptaylorcpa
Member
Call Ghost busters
I agree with Joep. I think if Ghost can't learn to enter into a valid discussion without his self serving comments about his book and how he is right and everyone else must be wrong, he deserves the boot. To be fair though, we should give him a chance to share his knowledge and opinions with us, regardless if we agree or not. Give him a bit more time, but if things don't improve give him the boot.
PS: Joep, hopefully you are wrong about saying that Ghost is Hollywood. I don't think Hollywood would stoop as low as Ghost has with his comments. Even though we give Hollywood a hard time sometimes about his opinions, he does deserve more respect than putting him in the same class as Ghost....
I agree with Joep. I think if Ghost can't learn to enter into a valid discussion without his self serving comments about his book and how he is right and everyone else must be wrong, he deserves the boot. To be fair though, we should give him a chance to share his knowledge and opinions with us, regardless if we agree or not. Give him a bit more time, but if things don't improve give him the boot.
PS: Joep, hopefully you are wrong about saying that Ghost is Hollywood. I don't think Hollywood would stoop as low as Ghost has with his comments. Even though we give Hollywood a hard time sometimes about his opinions, he does deserve more respect than putting him in the same class as Ghost....
Friends
I just found out after reading Hollywood's post that we may be friends :laugh: I guess I better update my Christmas card list.The difference is that Hollywood and I were busting on eachother and based upon our apperance together on WSOB it fit .We didn't trash Kenny Smith or Wong yet Wong threw us off.I guess if we learn to control our lips like he controls the dice :joker: we may be welcomed back.Hollywood how is your wrist control do you have what it takes......
I just found out after reading Hollywood's post that we may be friends :laugh: I guess I better update my Christmas card list.The difference is that Hollywood and I were busting on eachother and based upon our apperance together on WSOB it fit .We didn't trash Kenny Smith or Wong yet Wong threw us off.I guess if we learn to control our lips like he controls the dice :joker: we may be welcomed back.Hollywood how is your wrist control do you have what it takes......
My thoughts
Despite Ghost's harsh reply to my last message, I'm not planning to pull the plug on him or her yet. Ghost, if you know much about me, you'll know I'm sincere when I extend the olive branch and say I'd like to see you continue to participate here.
We all benefit from the discussion of different ideas, and it is especially useful to have differences of opinion. In disagreements we all find an opportunity to learn.
But BJT is not a free-for-all. I think of hosting BJT in the same way as I would consider hosting a discussion group in the living room of my home. There is a large group of individuals here who give generously of their time and effort to make this site useful. I'm merely the most visible of those. I'll insist on everyone involved staying respectful toward others.
That comment will almost certainly cause many to wonder if there's a double standard here, given the various strongly worded examples pointed out by Ghost in another thread. It's true, at least somewhat. There IS a double standard. Members who have consistently produced valuable insights get a little more leeway, but in reality, not much extra. In truth, most of the flareups we've had in the past have been between parties who are actually pretty close friends. Though it can be hard to tell the difference between a truly venomous post and a good-natured ribbing between friends, I'll assure you Ghost that much of what has gone on is the latter.
I think by now everyone here knows you're planning a book. Your job now is to earn the respect of those here who would be your best customers. I'll also ask everyone who responds to your ideas to do so with the same respect we're asking of you.
On another topic... Last of all, lest there be any doubt... The Ghost and Hollywood are not the same person.
Despite Ghost's harsh reply to my last message, I'm not planning to pull the plug on him or her yet. Ghost, if you know much about me, you'll know I'm sincere when I extend the olive branch and say I'd like to see you continue to participate here.
We all benefit from the discussion of different ideas, and it is especially useful to have differences of opinion. In disagreements we all find an opportunity to learn.
But BJT is not a free-for-all. I think of hosting BJT in the same way as I would consider hosting a discussion group in the living room of my home. There is a large group of individuals here who give generously of their time and effort to make this site useful. I'm merely the most visible of those. I'll insist on everyone involved staying respectful toward others.
That comment will almost certainly cause many to wonder if there's a double standard here, given the various strongly worded examples pointed out by Ghost in another thread. It's true, at least somewhat. There IS a double standard. Members who have consistently produced valuable insights get a little more leeway, but in reality, not much extra. In truth, most of the flareups we've had in the past have been between parties who are actually pretty close friends. Though it can be hard to tell the difference between a truly venomous post and a good-natured ribbing between friends, I'll assure you Ghost that much of what has gone on is the latter.
I think by now everyone here knows you're planning a book. Your job now is to earn the respect of those here who would be your best customers. I'll also ask everyone who responds to your ideas to do so with the same respect we're asking of you.
On another topic... Last of all, lest there be any doubt... The Ghost and Hollywood are not the same person.
See what happens when you try to help some people!
Dear Ken,
I applaud your recend well-intentioned post to a new member who was heading in the wrong direction. The tone of your comments shows you to be a true gentleman. It's sad that your accurate reflections were not received as intended. The subsequent attack of you by this misguided new member while regrettable was not totally surprising. One-person interventions are rarely well received. It's a very long step from denial to reality.
This attacker made much harsher comments about their self then what you said. This person's self descriptions included the following: "ahole at heart", "not sounding very professional", and finally admitting to the belief that everyone is "self-serving."
Most members who have followed the relative posts know who is right and who is wrong.
Ken; keep up the great job you are doing maintaining this wonderful web site. Most of us appreciate all you do and the time spend providing us with this service.
Sincerely,
tgun
Dear Ken,
I applaud your recend well-intentioned post to a new member who was heading in the wrong direction. The tone of your comments shows you to be a true gentleman. It's sad that your accurate reflections were not received as intended. The subsequent attack of you by this misguided new member while regrettable was not totally surprising. One-person interventions are rarely well received. It's a very long step from denial to reality.
This attacker made much harsher comments about their self then what you said. This person's self descriptions included the following: "ahole at heart", "not sounding very professional", and finally admitting to the belief that everyone is "self-serving."
Most members who have followed the relative posts know who is right and who is wrong.
Ken; keep up the great job you are doing maintaining this wonderful web site. Most of us appreciate all you do and the time spend providing us with this service.
Sincerely,
tgun
Ghost pay attention to wise words
Ken,
I also applaud your self disciplined post to the undeserving degrading comments Ghost made to you. Notice I said self discipline and not diplomatic post, the definition of diplomacy is "the art of telling someone to go to Hell and they look forward to the trip". Ghost, hint, this definition is included in my soon to be published (book) dictionary titled; Not Quite Webster.
Ken,
I also applaud your self disciplined post to the undeserving degrading comments Ghost made to you. Notice I said self discipline and not diplomatic post, the definition of diplomacy is "the art of telling someone to go to Hell and they look forward to the trip". Ghost, hint, this definition is included in my soon to be published (book) dictionary titled; Not Quite Webster.
PhillyPhlash
New Member
NOT a Free Speech Issue
I have participated in online chatrooms and message boards for many years. For the first time ever, I have placed a fellow-poster on "ignore". That poster is Ghost.
My vote is to ban him, . . . and hope he does not return under a new pseudonym to spew his vulgar, self-serving nonsense. And hope he does not return accompanied by like-minded posters. A civil, focused message board like this one can deterioarte very rapidly once the vandals target it.
There is no free speech issue here.
There is no free speech issue here !!!
The concept of free speech embodied in the First Amendment to the US Constitution is solely a limitation placed on the US Government against limiting free political discussion. One may argue the concept has been extended beyond political discussion over two centuries, but the proscription against limiting speech remains solely aimed at the US Government. Ken Smith has the power, authority, and right to limit any speech on his own web-site.
I have participated in online chatrooms and message boards for many years. For the first time ever, I have placed a fellow-poster on "ignore". That poster is Ghost.
My vote is to ban him, . . . and hope he does not return under a new pseudonym to spew his vulgar, self-serving nonsense. And hope he does not return accompanied by like-minded posters. A civil, focused message board like this one can deterioarte very rapidly once the vandals target it.
There is no free speech issue here.
There is no free speech issue here !!!
The concept of free speech embodied in the First Amendment to the US Constitution is solely a limitation placed on the US Government against limiting free political discussion. One may argue the concept has been extended beyond political discussion over two centuries, but the proscription against limiting speech remains solely aimed at the US Government. Ken Smith has the power, authority, and right to limit any speech on his own web-site.
Hollywood
New Member
P.c.
I for one applaud Ken's judicious impartiality, especially in the face of the knowledge that he uses such restraint voluntarily.
-hd.
Of course he does. "Free speech issue" does not denote a legal imperative, but rather an ethical question. We are all guests of Ken and he may pick and choose who he pleases to participate on this site without fear of reprisal or criminality. But it is on a greater moral ground that we discuss this concept.PhillyPhlash said:
I for one applaud Ken's judicious impartiality, especially in the face of the knowledge that he uses such restraint voluntarily.
-hd.
I voted to let Ghost stay strictly for the entertainment value. I think by now anyone reading his posts consider them a joke, and I hope no one is getting their feelings hurt. If you were to kick him off I would be ok with it too though, since I'm sure after another week of listening to his BS I will get bored with laughing at him. 
Cherub
Cherub
hey, ghost is right about one thing...
Whoever ghost may be, I wouldn't mind if I never heard from him again. I am a dedicated supporter of First Amendment rights but I don't see this as a free speech issue; ghost simply doesn't appear to be able to add anything of value. He/she may have a vast knowledge of tournament strategy, however none of his "help" will be well received if he continues with such an abusive delivery. I am too thankful for and enamored of the dedicated players so willing to share experience and advice in the pleasant manner we've established to tolerate a puerile, egotistical tease. The only accurate insight the ghost has offered has been admitting that he's an asshole.
Ken, the decision ultimately rests with you and whatever you choose to do, you've demonstrated great patience with our wayward new member and true Southern hospitality by considering all of our input.
Whoever ghost may be, I wouldn't mind if I never heard from him again. I am a dedicated supporter of First Amendment rights but I don't see this as a free speech issue; ghost simply doesn't appear to be able to add anything of value. He/she may have a vast knowledge of tournament strategy, however none of his "help" will be well received if he continues with such an abusive delivery. I am too thankful for and enamored of the dedicated players so willing to share experience and advice in the pleasant manner we've established to tolerate a puerile, egotistical tease. The only accurate insight the ghost has offered has been admitting that he's an asshole.
Ken, the decision ultimately rests with you and whatever you choose to do, you've demonstrated great patience with our wayward new member and true Southern hospitality by considering all of our input.
Blackjack Rebel Too
Member
I am in total agreement with those earlier posters that Ghost staying or going is not a Free Speech issue in any way. This board is a private entity and as such; has every right to limit individual participation for the greater good of the group. I believe that this could become much less issue if only the venomous tone and personal attacks could disappear from the posts of Ghost. Differing opinions on strategy, tournament acomplishments, blackjack in general or the meaning of life are all accepted and for the most part welcomed here. But a continuing pattern of hateful behavior can contaminate any forum to the point that it even impacts the participation of established members and persuades potential members from joining at all.
This leaves the administrator of any board with such a problem with the unwelcome task of trying to maintain civility without being overbearing or dicatatorial. I propose that we leave the decision to the person most affected by the situation. Let Ghost choose whether he should stay or go. If he would like to stay and contribute his insights and knowledge to our common goal of becoming better tournament players while sharing the camraderie and fellowship of this tournament players community, all that is required is to adopt a code of civil behavior that would be required in any face-to-face gathering. We always have room for another knowledgeable player who can make meaningful contributions, even those with a book to sell.
If on the other hand, if it is more important to "show who's boss" by ignoring the civil behavior that is necessary for a meaningful exchange of ideas and continuing the practice of posting derisive, condescending, and inflammatory attacks against the opinions of other members of the board as well as the members themselves; well, we can interpret that decision also.
This leaves the administrator of any board with such a problem with the unwelcome task of trying to maintain civility without being overbearing or dicatatorial. I propose that we leave the decision to the person most affected by the situation. Let Ghost choose whether he should stay or go. If he would like to stay and contribute his insights and knowledge to our common goal of becoming better tournament players while sharing the camraderie and fellowship of this tournament players community, all that is required is to adopt a code of civil behavior that would be required in any face-to-face gathering. We always have room for another knowledgeable player who can make meaningful contributions, even those with a book to sell.
If on the other hand, if it is more important to "show who's boss" by ignoring the civil behavior that is necessary for a meaningful exchange of ideas and continuing the practice of posting derisive, condescending, and inflammatory attacks against the opinions of other members of the board as well as the members themselves; well, we can interpret that decision also.