Was it a tactical error

M

mrbill

New Member
As it ended the answer was yes, but given the situation at the time, I'm not sure.

Hand 5 or 20, I was dealt a BJ with $125 bet. Dealer had an A. I took the even money. Dealer didn't have a BJ. So, I made $125 but lost $125 since BJ pays 2-1. The $125 I did get put me in the lead at that point.

How things ended(Dealer had a 5 up)
Position Bankroll Bet Hand Result
1(Button) 1200 300 5-4 Doubled and got a 9 for 18.
2(Me) 1270 300 6-4 Doubled and got a 10 for 20.
3 1300 300 9-8 Forced to double and got a 6 to bust.
4 1290 300 A-6 Forced to double and got a 2 for 19.

Dealer draws 2 cards to bust. Position 1 walked away from the table when I got the 20 since he couldn't win. I lose 1890 to 1870.

So given the way it ended the $125 would have been important. I'm not sure given how early it was and I was in the lead after taking the $125 that it was really an error.
 
Taking even money when blackjacks pay 2:1 is always a mistake, no matter the situation. I almost hate to post this, because I absolutely love seeing my opponents take even money in this situation. But, here goes anyway...

If I have a $125 Blackjack (paying 2:1), and the dealer has an Ace up, here are the possibilities:

If I stand, I win either $250, or $0 if the dealer has blackjack.
If I insure for the entire $62.50: My net win is either $125 (if the dealer has blackjack), or $187.50 (if the dealer doesn't.)

Taking even money yields a guaranteed $125, which throws away $62.50 two-thirds of the time.

When blackjack pays 3:2, "insurance" and "even money" are the same thing. Not true when blackjack pays 2:1.

One thing to be cautious about: Make sure the dealer pays you correctly. In many cases, you'll have to call the floor over to keep the dealer from collecting your initial bet if he or she has the blackjack. They usually get confused about this!

In your example, the extra $62.50 might have made the difference.
 
This is a first

I have to disagree with Ken. Now I didn't say he was wrong only that I disagree, I may be wrong, (and it wouldn't be the first time...LOL)

If indeed it was hand 20 and your only playing 20 hands or even 25 hands and you can take the lead "FOR SURE" with even money I would do it.

Why gamble on "What if", if I can take the lead I do it. We all play to have the lead at the end so why get greedy when it is given to you on a silver platter.

Once again this in just my opinion and what I would have done, you need to play the way your comfortable.
 
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My point is that taking even money is worse than insuring regardless.
Taking even money you get $125 every time.
By insuring, sometimes you get $125 and sometimes you get $187.50.

Now, deciding whether to take that or go for the whole $250 is a debatable point. But the choice should be between "Stand" or "Insure", not "Stand" or "Take even money".
 
I had never seen that

I had never seen 2-1 for BJ and only 1/2 your bet for insurance, I have only seen even money, no insurance, or let it ride. I know Sliverton (LV mini) pays 2-1, but doesn't offer insurance thats why I was talking about even money, but even more so now I would take the insurance knowing that I would make $187.50 for sure by putting it up and taking the lead!

Mind you I am talking about late in the round and to take the table lead.

Again this might not be the highest percintage play, but I would be willing to take my chances as long as I had the lead.

My mind set is why take the chance to get paid 2-1 and the lead and maybe not take the lead if the dealer has BJ vs. taking the even to 1 1/2 sure money and taking the table lead for sure by taking even money or in this case insurance.

After going back looking at mrBill question I'm not sure insurance was offered.
If it was offered you did make a mistake as it would have cost you $62.50 by taking not taking insurance over even money, this is if insurance was indeed offered.

What tournament was this mrbill?
 
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The tournament is the weekly one at Treasure Island Casino in Red Wing MN. $30 entry fee, 168 entries, paying the top 6 with the winner getting $2333. About 40% of the entries are rebuys after loosing at 6PM.

It was hand 5 when I took the even money. They do offer insurance but not to anyone with BJ, so I wasn't offered insurance. They start at the button and offer insurance or even money. Not both.
 
Your hand, your call

On only the 5th hand I would have played it out. If you win you get 2 - 1 payoff and if the dealer does have BJ you still push while the others lose.

From what you were asking I thought it would be a even money vs. 2-1 payoff with no insurance offered situation. I have never seen or heard of a casino that would offer 2-1 for BJ and offer insurance as well. That would be a great deal from the casino for the players and we all know that doesn't happen for the players...LOL.
 
The 2-1 is only the tournament. Normal BJ is 3-2. My theory as to why is normal BJ allows double on any 2 cards except BJ. Raising the payout to 2-1 during a tournament removes any incentive to double the BJ.
 
Offering 2:1 on blackjack in tournaments is not all that uncommon, but you're probably right in the justification in this particular casino.

Interestingly, every tournament I've played that offered 2:1 also allowed insurance. However, in researching many of the events for the event calendar, I see that's probably not typical. Many of the events that specify 2:1 for blackjack also specifically note that insurance is not allowed.

When insurance is not allowed, you should be quite reluctant to give up a 2:1 payoff for even money. However, as always, if even money makes you a lock, take it. If not, when in doubt, sweat it out, as the numbers are on your side.
 
KenSmith said:
When insurance is not allowed, you should be quite reluctant to give up a 2:1 payoff for even money. However, as always, if even money makes you a lock, take it. If not, when in doubt, sweat it out, as the numbers are on your side.
Click to expand...

I realized it was probably an error right after I did it, but by then it was too late.

I know I've learned a lot from this board and want to thank everyone that has responded to my various posts.
 
Thanks, mrbill, for the updated information on this event in the calendar:
https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/oldtourn/viewtourn.php?infoID=72

MrBill and Walt so far have been the first two members other than me to contribute by adding or updating information in the event calendar. Thanks guys!

Ideally, whenever someone attends an event, or calls the casino to inquire about an event, their next thought will be to update the listings so we all benefit. In particular, if you receive casino mail that announces a new open tournament, or an invitational event, let us know about it!

I haven't mentioned it yet, but there's tracking in place in the event calendar to award "Posting Points" to visitors who contribute. There will be some sort of reward structure, though I haven't worked it all out yet.
 
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