Who owns Bet21/UB?

[LeftNut]

My apologies for drifting off the subject of who owns what...

I've got to respond to a couple of posts. First of all, ploppy or not, I won't gamble real $$$ on any website not matter how good the deal might be. If it works for others, fine, but I don't trust 'em at all. Too many things can be done to compromise the integrity of the game, be it EBJ or poker or whatever. And that's the only reason you don't see me in any website cash games. It makes me a little nuts, because I do like this TBJ/EBJ quite a lot and there simply aren't any B&M opportunities in the Detroit area. I didn't find out about the Mt. Pleasant WSOB events until they were all done.

Second, I've gotta take umbrage at the notion the online freeroll EBJ gives an advantage to "wildcat" play. I'm one of the tightest sonuvabitches you've ever seen in those freerolls, and I managed to pick off one of the UBT trips.

By the way, Reachy, which freeroll did you win?

 

[toolman1]

I'm one of the tightest sonuvabitches you've ever seen in those freerolls, and I managed to pick off one of the UBT trips.

Congratulations on your win. Keep us posted about your progress through the mine field. You may know from my posts that I too am a firm supporter of conservative play. You proved that conservative play will conquer the wildcatter - just takes time.

I didn't find out about the Mt. Pleasant WSOB events until they were all done.

I made the first post about this event to the CALENDAR on Nov. 15. The events were half over at that time but 4 qualifiers still remained.
I always check the "Recent Calendar Updates" when ever I log-in. This way I don't miss any tournament posting that I may be interested in.

 

[Reachy]

Not one of importance I'm afraid

Leftnut

I won a bet21 freeroll (1st place) with 750+ players early on. Unfortunately it didn't qualify me for a UBT place or anything but nevertheless I won one! Just making a point to Barney really.

Cheers

Reachy

 

[Reachy]

ploppie volume

Leftnut

I don't think Barney or anybody is saying that people who play and do well in freerolls are all ploppies. His point is, and I agree with him to an extent, that you get high volumes of ploppies and ploppy play at freerolls because they are, well, free and you don't actually win anything tangible, at least not initially. If you play a skilled game, as you do and should, and if you've got 350 other players going all-in all the time, a large enough proportion of them are going to build up massive chip leads making it very difficult for even the best players in the world to overhaul them. I think there would be a definite contrast between that and a MTT where there was a reasonable entry fee. If people had to invest money and there was a chance of winning cold hard cash at the end you would get less ploppy, wildcat play.

Cheers

Reachy

 

[Rando21]

Congrats on your win Leftnut....

First let me say that I started this thread more to play devils advocate...I love this game and want to actually see it become huge!

It is agreed that there have been some startup problems...in fact in the begining it was terrible because this game is not compatable with all OS...at least if you are trying to use annimation features as is the default.

I hear you folks that are happy with the CS department....I am not happy with them.

I dont consider a canned reply worth anything unless it actually answers the question...and in fact I have grown to resent the canned reply about the question of Bonus or "absent" out error that I received when I was trying to just play a whole game w/o missing any hands...

I had to figure that one out myself and I felt like I was completely ignored and in fact still do when I write about bonus....

This is what I expect....see if you think its unreasonable... Dear Sirs ....what about my bonus dollars in ragards to EBJ?

Dear Mr Rando....This is a serious issue with us...we currently are working on the software to track this....unfortunatly it is taking longer than we expected and in fact we launched it but it still has bugs so we had to go back to the drawing board...blah blah....

GREAT!!!! I get it!!!! Thank you for telling me that ....now I can move on to other issues like "Hey how about making my name different at the table during play so that I dont hit someone elses hand or double my 20 while looking at my neighbors 11?

Insted I got endless canned replys that I returned for followup...no one ever went beyond saying that poker offers bonus...blah blah...thats not CS! Thats lazy poor service...unless you really have something to hide...Right?

I dont care who owns McDonalds unless I start finding bits of cat in my bisquets.... and if I suspect cat...(maybe I heard my bisquet purrring) than I want a reply that says NO...we dont use cat....in our bisquets anyway (you have to order a big MAC for cat)....and then I may want to know who owns it....

Why wouldnt you want to know who owns this site? If its a great site that offers a fair game and they take good care of their customers then there is every reason to be proud of your business...;-)

Actually I love this game and the sites are getting way better....but why does HD (thanks BTW great job!!!) have to keep us informed about issues that these sites should be keeping us up to date on..

If they ran a test run of the tracking...GREAT...if it failed out because of bugs....Thats ok....I understand...but tell us! The mushroom treatment is only good for growing mushrooms...

This is where CS fails...also when CS cant tell a player that is having a "absent" issue to turn off annimation in the options section...and then the game will work fine for them then they are not doing a good job...I help at least 2 people a week still with this issue ...would it hurt to publish that tip in a hints section?

Now....for some the missing back pats...

I am more than impressed with these sites at that manner in which they kept their word to bring a big money ($25,000) tournament to EBJ...remember at Christmas one was scheduled but changed into a "HORSE" event at the last moment...

They promised one and they made good that promise....now the ball is in our court to play these sats and to play this game is you ever wanna see it again...and frankly it is not happening....more than 1/2 the sats I signed up for have been canceled....you guys are making your wishes known...


Now back to Leftnut.....

Let me see if I understand.....the online game is not good enough to play even after you won a seat to a big time TV and money event? And you havent or wont support the game other than free rolls?

Am I undestanding that right?

Frankly Im speechless at that one....

Let me repeat my congradulations...you CB you!

Its exactly why they should revamp the free rolls...
BTW...I have qualified for every single one except for the first Aruba event which no one heard about until it was over....

Let me restate my opinion as to how this game is undermining itself...The TEC point game is teaching that max bet play is the only way...of course we can beat that style over time or sometimes...but when you are playing 5 or 6 players all using that style ..one is bound to stay lucky and move beyond your position or ability to catch them...in fact if you removed the elimination hands ..they would never win...

But teaching newbies to play that way is short sighted ...they need to play right...then they will learn and become addicted and the game will flourish....beating them because they are playing stupid is gonna what???? make them play more? NO!

So what does that mean???I am not sure really but Sanford and H Dave and KenE and Ken S and all the other book authors are wasting time if that is the answer...

I hear the same complaints about lottery playing at the low stakes poker tables....yep I play a little...shhhhh (who has the best poker books, lessons?) shhhhh

Perhaps people are thinking..."Well this game is ok for free but Im not investing one dollar (like Leftnut) to support a game with such long shot odds"??

700...800 people playing for free but none of the cheap bass turds are supporting the real money game...WHY?

Is it timing?...maybe they will come around later after addiction..??

Left Nut???You sound like a player of this game...why wont you support it? You think they are going to be able to keep offering the game in any form if no one is playing the buyin fees games?

It would go a long way in helping these investors decide a direction to head if the majority feel as Leftnut does....someone who is willing to play the free game but who refuses to support the bread and butter game....

So far the numbers are telling the direction they might soon decide to head...700 - 800 free roll players but they cant attract 30 people to throw in 5 bucks for a shot at 25,000....

Are you honestly wondering why you cant find a game Leftnut? It couldnt be because no one can make a buck offering the game you (and many others) wont support could it?

Please ..I dont mean to pick on you...you are typical free roll participant..and although you have actually won a great deal of money now.. you still dont play the money site...maybe you should be the case study of the future effort the sites need to take or if there is a point to continue at all.

 

[LeftNut]

Rando, you misunderstand me completely. It has nothing to do with unwillingness to support the game / concept by gambling with real $$$, it has to do with mistrust of the websites on 2 counts. Any gambling websites, not just TBJ / EBJ.
1. The potentially compromisable (is that a word?) integrity of an Internet-based game for real money. Those of us that aren't "on the inside" hear stories, for example, about pokerbots and illicit software that will allow someone to see ALL the cards in a HoldEm game. Whether true or not, this doesn't promote confidence that one is getting a fair shake.
2. Being leery of giving out financial information over the Internet to anyone. We hear stories every day about websites being tampered with and invaded by hackers who steal people's personal info and make their lives miserable. Even if the site is totally honest, security can be (and in many cases, has been) breached by determined criminals with a home computer. You'd think that the almighty Microsoft would possess the nirvana of Internet security, but even their site was hacked into a few months ago.

I really like this game and I fervently hope that it takes off like poker did. Even if I hadn't gotten insanely lucky, I'd still be enjoying it immensely and would be more than willing to support it by testing my ability in a B&M event at stakes that I could afford. But, not online, and I did not play real-money poker online for the same reasons. My whole point to this and the previous post was to offer up a possible example of why 1,000's of ploppies are willing to freeroll but not pony up real dollars.

P.S. You're absolutely correct that those TEC games are a joke and are teaching the uninitiated totally incorrect strategy. It reminds me of the poker pro's laments about TVEPP's - TV-educated poker players - who think the entire game must be played like the very few hands that actually survive the editing process and are shown on the tube.

 

[LeftNut]

Reachy, congrats again on your freeroll win. You and Barney are right about ploppy play at the freerolls! If they had real $$$ involved, betting patterns would change significantly. As you already know, because you reached the endgame of a freeroll, the betting changes drastically when things get that far. Even notorious wildcatters settle down, because there's actually a prize within reach. At the online final table where I got so lucky, there were two players whom I recognized, both seemed to know only the "BET MAX" button previous to that table. Unfortunately for them, they had little idea how to play a strategic game instead of just bombing away and their bets seemed to be entirely random with no discernible reasoning behind them.

 

[Reachy]

If you can get through the first few rounds of a freeroll you are in a good position to do well. Having said that I've been out on the bubble a few times. I stopped playing freerolls seriously after the first 2 or 3 because they took up so much time with very little reward.

Cheers

Reachy

 

[Archie]

Do your homework ... and dive!

Leftnut, your concerns about online play were and are still my concerns. This is why I did my homework seriously before diving in. Trust is the key and there are safe sites. You have to convince yourself first of the integrity of the people running or promoting them, or vouching for them by getting and reading all the information available, and then making a judgment.

After saying no to online gambling for 15 years because of the concerns you now express, I decided to trust Bet21 three months ago by investing an amount I could afford to lose that would give me the flexibility to play at any level just to get the practice I wanted to hone my skills for land-based TBJ (too few events in my area) : about 450 games later (SnG's and tournaments) I am still rolling the same initial bankroll by entering the games I can afford at a specific moment in time. I made three deposits between October 7 and 22 ($520, $210 and $500) for a total of $1230, and none since then. I play regularly at any level (for me the play is the thing, not the gambling part) and watch my BR carefully. Since October 22, my BR fluctuated between a low of $174 and a high of $1815.

The number of games I played cost more than $12000 and the money won is also over $12000. Right now, I'm in the red (minus $389) but only one good result away from being even.

You are a good player Leftnut. So, join our games, manage your BR properly and I am sure you'll love it. See you at the tables.

I don't consider this expense as gambling, but entertainment. When I play regular BJ, that's gambling.

 

[fgk42]

I dont care who owns McDonalds unless I start finding bits of cat in my bisquets.... and if I suspect cat...(maybe I heard my bisquet purrring) than I want a reply that says NO...we dont use cat....in our bisquets anyway (you have to order a big MAC for cat)....and then I may want to know who owns it....

I know what you mean. I went in and pointed to the picture and said I want a perfect sandwich like that. The person taking my order must have misunderstood me and said, "ok Mr. here's your purrrrfect sandwich!"

Not good CS there! :joker:

 

[fgk42]

My apologies for drifting off the subject of who owns what...

I've got to respond to a couple of posts. First of all, ploppy or not, I won't gamble real $$$ on any website not matter how good the deal might be. If it works for others, fine, but I don't trust 'em at all. Too many things can be done to compromise the integrity of the game, be it EBJ or poker or whatever. And that's the only reason you don't see me in any website cash games. It makes me a little nuts, because I do like this TBJ/EBJ quite a lot and there simply aren't any B&M opportunities in the Detroit area. I didn't find out about the Mt. Pleasant WSOB events until they were all done.

Second, I've gotta take umbrage at the notion the online freeroll EBJ gives an advantage to "wildcat" play. I'm one of the tightest sonuvabitches you've ever seen in those freerolls, and I managed to pick off one of the UBT trips.

Leftnut,

You're not gonna like this but I gotta say this - hypocrite!

If you distrust the website SO much that they can compromise the game then why play in the first place? There won't BE any EBJ coming to your area anytime soon so unless you wanna fork over $540 for Barona in January you gotta wait for the Palms in April at $2700 a pop!

I see where you say there are compromises in web security, etc... Yes but Neteller is a secure site. You are more likely to get ripped off on e-Bay than Neteller. Do you do online banking? I bet you do.

I've liked your posts and contributions but, excuse me for this, people like YOU are why things take so long and fail. People are willing to "give it a try" and suck at the teets for free! arty:

But then putting real $ on line? Heck no, it's too dangerous Oh bull hockey! If you're just to damn cheap be honest and say I don't want to risk my hard earned money gambling. THAT I would respect. But just to hang around waiting for handouts all the time.......

Yeah, you claim to be one of the tightest sonuvabitches you've ever seen playing....I agree you ARE and I'm not just referring to your EBJ playing ability!

I thank you for your honesty, disagree with it and your rationale, but I respect the honesty. However, you've just proved my point about the freerolls and why, in my opinion, Bet21.com should stop trying to sow seeds on toxic ground! You don't grow tomato plants in raw sewage so stop with the freerolls!

To add to that anyone seen or heard from douchekitty? Remember her? Aruba freeroll winner, all the questions, plays in the final table, cashes and where is she now?

 

[LeftNut]

Leftnut,

You're not gonna like this but I gotta say this - hypocrite!

Ah! A shot across the bow from someone not afraid to speak his mind!

If you distrust the website SO much that they can compromise the game then why play in the first place? There won't BE any EBJ coming to your area anytime soon so unless you wanna fork over $540 for Barona in January you gotta wait for the Palms in April at $2700 a pop!

I started goofing around with the UBT site just for fun. Didn't even know there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So it wasn't a matter of distrusting the site, it started out as being a just a lark. Much later I discovered that there was a lot more possibility in there. Besides, freerolls don't ask for SSN's or bank account numbers.

I see where you say there are compromises in web security, etc... Yes but Neteller is a secure site. You are more likely to get ripped off on e-Bay than Neteller. Do you do online banking? I bet you do.

Nope, no online banking, bill payments, or anything like that. At all.

I've liked your posts and contributions but, excuse me for this, people like YOU are why things take so long and fail. People are willing to "give it a try" and suck at the teets for free! arty:

A fair shot, however, I am willing to try it for real $$$ - just not online.

But then putting real $ on line? Heck no, it's too dangerous Oh bull hockey! If you're just to damn cheap be honest and say I don't want to risk my hard earned money gambling. THAT I would respect. But just to hang around waiting for handouts all the time.......

Now THIS is funny. Not risk my money gambling, eh? A half-million in action a year at video poker - in a slow year. With the highly limited playable opportunities in this area, too.

Yeah, you claim to be one of the tightest sonuvabitches you've ever seen playing....I agree you ARE and I'm not just referring to your EBJ playing ability!

Just because I distrust online financial transactions?

I thank you for your honesty, disagree with it and your rationale, but I respect the honesty. However, you've just proved my point about the freerolls and why, in my opinion, Bet21.com should stop trying to sow seeds on toxic ground! You don't grow tomato plants in raw sewage so stop with the freerolls!

To add to that anyone seen or heard from douchekitty? Remember her? Aruba freeroll winner, all the questions, plays in the final table, cashes and where is she now?

You have no reason to assume that I'll be any different than her. But you'll see otherwise. Video poker opportunities are becoming hideously scarce, and with my personal dislike for HoldEm, I've been looking for new frontiers.

 

[Rando21]

Well Leftnut...

I certainly understand your distrust of online gaming....no one bitche$ more about oversight and the effort these sites need to take to assure the playing public that they are honest business offering a fair game than me.

With that said...I think you are being a little extreme about this particular game...EBJ...

You are risking far more just walking into any B and M with the action you are rolling.

Archie is exactly right...this game is less gambling and more skill based than any casino game and certainly video poker...I know....there are certain games where you can win....and offer good EV but you are still putting lots on the line and into a machine that is only a physical representative of an online game....in other words...."THEY" can just as easily set these machines you play to milk every last dollar from you by simple programing.

How can you know??? You cant...

You play a game that involves a machine.... that can be adjusted programed manipulated by the same egghead that could possibly set this game also...but...the big differece here is the tourney aspect....it is the great equalizer...the house doesnt care who wins...it will never be the house ...they take a rake and thats it.

Now read almost all my posts and you will hear me whining that maybe they have a knob that sets the games to end as quickly as possible in order to increase rake per hour rates...(and this could easily be true) but that still doesnt make my chances less than another person entered into a tournament...thus I have the same chance as everyone else ....thats a fair game...

If you are the type that never buys anything online etc....then I doubt you will ever play here...but didnt they want your info to sign up for the site..??? And now that you have won big money ...Im sure they need your info to send the winnings info to your good Uncle Sam...

You are not gonna get a better game in any B and M near you soon...

You may be right....perhaps people wont play and the game must then cetainly go away...

Yes what happened to douche bag Kitty??? I see StubbsUBT (another free roll winner ocasionally) but she has taken the money and run...fat farm maybe...???......sorry I gave this chick a lot of info that she came and begged for and not one word of thanks or even a report on her trip or games...booooo

Hey I need to lose 40 myself..

I distrust internet gaming too.....I distrust this game the least of any gambling game on the interent and in any Brick and Morter for that matter...your skill gives you a chance here...that ability diminishes every day with every new rule and anti AP activity at every casino you walk into...

You risk far more just walking into your local joint....and you are kidding yourself that you are safe because you are touching the VP machine...

Whos paying for the beautiful palaces, free drinks, big comps, high salary of dealers pit boss etc??? Not just the little ole lady at the slot machine...thats for sure..

Stop being a cheep bass turd....come play with us....

You know Im mostly teasing right??? Im just jealous that you won and I didnt and Im a great guy who needs a big break to help get over this dam mid life crises crap....blah blah....

Honestly....I wish you great luck in your event....even if you are cheap skate...

 

[LeftNut]

Yes, Rando, I'd figured that you were (mostly) kidding. Actually, you had me laughing a couple of times while reading through that last post.

I am not naive enough to think that a VP machine cannot be gaffed. There's a lot more to it than that, and I could blather on for hours about VP machines, how they function, how to spot positive opportunities, etc. If you've got time to kill, go to yahoo.com, find the vpFREE forums, sign up, and prepare to be amazed. The nuts and bolts of it is that the casinos don't need to risk the bad publicity (or their license in some jurisdictions) by gaffing the VP in order to enjoy a solid hold percentage. The ignorant ploppies who make up the vast majority of players are totally clueless about strategy or even the elementary skill of choosing the better machine to play.

Yes, UBT wanted info, but they have not yet asked for anything more than the basics - name, address, email, phone. Had they asked for an SSN, they'd have gotten a reply requesting a phone number for disclosing that.

You've got no reason to believe that I won't vanish as other freeroll winners have before me. But you will see, I won't be going away soon (even though some of you may wish I would!). Time will tell.

BTW, to Toolman - Thanks for the tip about the Calendar. It wouldn't have helped me in the particular case of the Mt. Pleasant WSOB qualifier, though, simply because I didn't even know about these excellent forums until it was too late. I'll be keeping an eye on it for future possibilities although I know that, for me at this point, it would be learning to swim in the deep end of the pool. But I've never been afraid to jump in - sink or swim!