WSOB 2008 - possibilities

[fgk42]

Well now that the 2007 WSOB is “in the can” I have some suggestions for GSN. Hopefully others can opine as well and maybe, just maybe Ken B will read this thread.

Ok, lets keep the same 40 players in the WSOB. Give 5 seats for special invites (last years champs, etc.) That leaves 35 seats available.

Host the super-satellites right before the big event, like was done this year. That would account for 15 seats. Now we’ve got 20 seats remaining.

Divide the country into four zones: Northeast, Southeast, Middle and Northwest (Vegas would host the super-satellites). Pick a casino in each region to host a WSOB super-satellite in which 5 players (final table) goes to the WSOB.

Each of these regional qualifiers would be open events, with a 500-1000 buy-in. It would be a multi-table 1-2 day affair and taped – yes taped events.

Now each region could have casinos having weekly events to send their “people” to represent their casino. For example in the Northeast have the event at the AC Hilton or Foxwoods or Niagria Falls casino.

Limit the tourney to 50 people (this is just MY stupid idea, work with me people). This provides 10 tables of 5. Round 1. Two players from each table advance.

Now allow re-buys at this point. Let the re-buys play but with either re-buys or wildcards get to 25 players (initial 20 who advanced and 5 winners from re-buy tables or wildcards) This would be round 1.5

Round 2 – 25 players. 5 tables of 5 with 2 players advancing.

Round 3 – 10 players. 2 tables of 5 with 2 from each table advancing to the WSOB.

Round 4 – players from round 2 & 3 would play in “losers bracket” . This could consist of re-buys or wild card drawings. Need 10 people for 2 tables of 5 with 2 advancing.

Round 5 Final table of 5 with 1 advancing to WSOB

This would give each super-regional event 5 people going into the WSOB. This format would require the players advance through a minimum of 3 tables but there would be multiple opportunities for re-buys, wild-cards, etc…

This opens the event to all players, it should prevent “ploppies” from getting through, it gives GSN LOTS of footage for shows and does for BJT what WSOP does, gives viewers a chance to follow players from their initial entry up and to the big show.

Furthermore using this format the GSN people have footage of players whom THEY (GSN) deems would be good TV and can “invite” to the main event.

In addition I would suggest that the money for the super-regional events be awarded to the players at the tourney right there!

Any thoughts or am I just off my rocker again?

How many of you would like something like this or would be willing to particiapte?

 

[fgk42]

Although invited celebrities will continue to have a place in the field (this year's included Penn Jillette, Shannon Elizabeth, Orel Hershiser and Caroline Rhea), Belinkoff expects satellite tournaments to play a more prominent role in forthcoming editions of the World Series.

Satellites with buy-ins of $1,025 and $2,550 at the Hilton generated 15 entrants into the World Series field, and a long line of people hoping for more satellites had to be turned away.

"We have enough confidence in the game itself and the skill of the players to open it up to anyone who wants to try to prove their worth," Belinkoff said. "That idea is something we're really going to embrace and continue to build on."

Hey Kevin,

1. Thanks for opening up this years super-satellites at the Hilton - great event I loved it

2. Don't forget about the East Coast of the US - There's a Hilton in Atlantic City as well as their twin Resorts!

3. Look at what is going on in Oklahoma this week - imagine that with a GSN sponsored WSOB across the country!

4. What do you think about the multiple tier approach that I listed...anyone....Bueller.....Bueller......Bueller

 

[KenSmith]

fgk, I think you mean Kevin where you say Ken, right?

 

[Barney Stone]

<<3. Look at what is going on in Oklahoma this week - imagine that with a GSN sponsored WSOB across the country!>>

I could have sworn there were WSOB competitions here and there in the USA! I hear they were $60 to play.

 

[fgk42]

I could have sworn there were WSOB competitions here and there in the USA! I hear they were $60 to play.

Once again only partial truths .

WSOB held satellites for tourney's with the host casino granting a seat into the WSOB.

Problems with that:

1. Little promotion - except at the local levels and here on BJT.com
2. Weekly tourney's where the winner must then COME back for the final table SUCKS. When you have a tourney finish the darn thing. This discourages people from coming in to play the event because I will pay to fly somewhere once but twice?
3. Look at the results of the people who qualified - oops can't spill the bean can we?

4. Have regional SUPER-SATELLITES. This allows GSN to get footage of the players and will draw more people. I will not spend more on airfare than an entry fee - The EV doesn't warrent it.

5. Obviously the current $20-60 system doesn't work. I mean if it did those events would draw 100 plus people like the Hilton SUPER SATELLITE did. Imagine over 100 people paying anywhere from 1,000 to 2,500 for an entry fee. How many of those people when to the little crappy WSOB Indian satellites? (Sorry for my obvious bias but hey it is what it is!)

Finally you want to make this a big time event - think big.

You wanna keep it mom and pop crap continue.....

 

[Barney Stone]

Your undersatnding

of the BJT market amazes me. I would have to ask Thrasht,Leah, Marichal tex, swog or etc how the individual WSOB seat events went. I know it gave many players at least a nice goal to shoot for and a game to play. To promote the WSOB these satellites at Indian casinos are very important. The reason is simple, it involves players in various regions at a local level. Washington State has become a main area for BJT and the events there were actually in the heart of current BJT but super satellites would be a loser for the casinos there. Having a super satellite in Vegas was a great idea as well as it draws in the upper level players like some of those you watched win. But, if you were to leave it at a super qualifier "only" event you wouldnt get a true sample of the BJT field you would get return of players traveling from site to site until they win. The best is to do it as they are now, minors plus the super event or two. I would strongly suggest you get out of your glass house from time to time. Try a plastic spoon instead of silver.

 

[marichal]

i had to travel, 8 hrs one way, 3 times to try and qualify in wa. state. yes, i believe that this format allows us of "lesser mortal fame" to attain our goal in being at wsob. eveything in life needs as many avenues to attain different results for humanity.

could there have been any surprises at the final table at wsob?????

 

[Barney Stone]

Senor Marichal

""i believe that this format allows us of "lesser mortal fame" to attain our goal in being at wsob""

There was talk of a limo in OK, is this you?

 

[marichal]

hey, that looks like tex's wiener

 

[the_snowbird]

Wsob2008

Hi everyone,

fgk, As you said it was a great super satellite event this year at the Hilton. Your suggestion is great but i believe that there are some issues ....

1, the casino: I think that ( I could be wrong ). The casino would not like to host the super satellite such that their fovourite players at the casino did not get a better treatment, which is from their business point : It makes sense from them to care about their regular players first ... before some guys from nowhere just come in to play one super tour and gone ....

2, From me, I will be frank ... that I am selfish..... like most of people .... .... I would not mind ( actually happy ) to see fish or bad players that Casino send to WSOB seating at my table ( ofcourse that's if I am in ... ) .... and it would make a good show that. Blackjack needs skill too, Luck is big factor but skills get you closer and with some luck ... you win.... for audiences to see that.

3, So I would say that for next year or coming year!
Kevin, please .... please ! if you read this.

Do as you have done this year.
Having qualifiers from various casino.
Have some invitations.
Have super satellites BUT PUT THE NUMBER UP to 20 or 25 seats.
So that we have the mix of every thing and hardcore Blackjack players on the super satellite.

Well, Kevin already have his plan. We are all sure, WSOB have been doing well as past years so it will just getting better every year.
...... just that I could not keep my mouth shut ..... Dam .... I should stay on that 19 .... ..... what did i thinking about ?

There always be next times!

Cheers guys

 

[TXtourplayer]

I'll bet you...

I can almost guarantee that the number of super-satellites for next year's WSOB will be based on need, just as they were this year.

The normal fee for a WSOB seat is $50,000 to the casinos. The $2,500 (6-players) only brought in $15,000 and the $1,000 (18-players) only $18,000 per seat given away.

So my point is should GSN sell more seats to the casinos next year, the number of super-satellite seats will drop.

Now for something even more important to worry about, we have to hope the rating numbers are good enough that GSN brings the WSOB back next year.

But on the other hand, I have heard talk of going to 60 players, maybe even 80 players for the WSOB, but as of this time they are only rumors.

 

[the_snowbird]

WSOB 2008 possibilities

Hi TXTour,

Well, we should pray not then.
GSN should not look at the $1 million prize and asking for the players to ante it up.
They have make money out of the commercial .....ect.

If they do that I am not sure there will be a success and here is my thought ... ( but I could be wrong ).

Say 40 players with $ 1 Million prize pool. So each seat is 25 K.
So satelites with a table of 6, each player need to put in ~ $4166.67 plus fee so just round off as: $4400 per player. If 10 player for each table then the cost is $2700 per seat.

This is like taking a ride for about half an hour for a chance of winning $ 25 K ( this is if you get to the last hand, otherwise it could be 5 minutes ride ) . This odd is not good .... too fast ..... too little reward....

If you win the seat then another round is taking another half an hour to an hour and again that's if you are stick around to the last hand. If not it could be 5 to 10 minutes to burn a $25 K. ........ this game is cool ....

May be because that now I played a lot of Poker.
If I put in a buy-in of between $2500 - 5000 on any poker tournament. It will take 2 days if I get to the last hand and the winning prize, I would say around $700 K now for any WPT or WSOP.
For $1000 super satelite to win $10K seat, you can play for 2 hours and then for the main event 10K, it took 4 to 5 days having the chance of winning minimun $1.4 Million on any major tour now.
The most likely if you get knock out early is at least 5 -6 hours ( if not too craze ) which it gives me a lot of play times and a more rewarding...

I believed that is the key why Blackjack tournament is tough to get a lift-off.
Big buy-in, short time to play, little reward comparing with Poker.
We all see that in other blackjack tournaments which are running now with small or big buy-in ..... how many players do they have ? and the prize ?

Even saying that, I would say there are a lot of hardcore Blackjack players out there will be willing to put down a big buy-in ......... but if they are not win on the first, second or third times .... they will not come back .... .....

Blackjack should understand why Poker is success.
long playing times! big big reward !
in player's mind, they think I can turn this $1000 into $2 millions. If not the worst case, I am having fun for few days.
That's what keep them coming back tournaments after tournaments.

Big buy-in for Blackjack? Learn to play Poker my friends!

Cheers!

 

[TXtourplayer]

I never have like average value for a seat or tournament...

I agree that an average of 40 players with a $1,000,000 prize pool will be $25,000 per seat. But I hate that, I feel that a seat is only worth what you win out of it.

Now in the WSOB, only 8 players will win a minimum of $25,000 and possible that 10 players (counting the two wild cards) may even make more. However that leaves 30 players that will end up with less than the $25,000 average you mention.

 

[noman]

Wow Tx:

Seat only worth what you pay for it? My main man!

The average value of a finals seat is what makes a satelite or super satelite buy in worth while. Or on the rare occassion that the finals payouts are overlays to what all entrants pay.

There's been mountains of discussions of hidden vig, retained re-buys, yadda, yadda, yadda. Even Global couldn't get action early on, cause it's vigs, for most players seemed excessive, no matter the payouts, tourneys, or sng's.

Figuring your buy-in to potential winnings is what makes some tourneys worth while and others passable. (sometimes, even with an excessive vig) But, you know that.

 

[fgk42]

2007 Wsob

Snowbird,

Please correct me if I misunderstood your post but I am still trying to understand the allure to poker. Because you get to play poker for a longer period of time you find it more advantageous?

The prize pool and the number of entries has a direct correlation. For example with poker and a 1 million dollar prize pool. You’d have a LOT more than 40 people. With the WSOB there was only 40 people fighting for the 1,000,000 prize pool.

With the WSOP you’d have to go back a few years to only get a 1,000,000 prize pool (because most are well over that now) but how many competitors were there? I don’t know – anyone?

From a strictly odds perspective I’ll take a 1:40 shot (that’s why I participated in the super-satellites)

With the WSOB this is a different animal than a regular BJT – at least as I see it. Why? Let me explain.

1. GSN needs programming (as any network does) most series cost money to produce (camera people, editing, etc… even reality series’s cost money to produce). The average “sitcom” can cost anywhere from 100K to 200K per show (Friends cost almost 750K or more I believe due to the stars salaries). The costs involved in filming the super-satellites in Las Vegas were minimal (all they had was a skeleton crew – camera and sound).
2. The final events are staged and the costs associated with the filming should be minimal – none of the “players” are salaried – only costs are overhead, commentary, dealer and behind the scenes costs (same as any TV production)
3. Licenseing fees – GSN gets some money from the Hilton as a sponsor (branding)
4. Adverstisers – based on TV rating they get money from advertisers
5. Selling seats – I didn’t realize that they charged $50,000 per seat – I read TX’s post in this thread – so the regional mini-tourney’s are another way to make some money
6. Super-satellites – from the Las Vegas event they gained money also (

So when talking about BJT jackpots the WSOB is a separate entity and unique from other jackpots. I personally think that with a better “marketing” program, targeted to BJ demographics, that GSN could increase viewership and thereby increase advertising revenue. I say this because until I joined BJT.com I hadn’t heard of the WSOB and I play BJ in casinos frequently. What’s my point with this? Simply put that with WSOB there are other sources of income for the prize pool. To expect that the 1,000,000 in prize pool money coming from players entry fees is a little steep. Without the positive EV it would be a difficult sell (in my opinion)

There are two schools of thought with regard to holding a “Big Event”

1. Have a large enough prize pool to attract the very best. People will “follow” the players whom they identify with (i.e., Nascar like event)
2. Create lots of buzz at the grassroots level and word of mouth will cause the event to grow/swell. As more and more people become involved they tell their neighbors, friends, family, etc.

The problem with the first method is that with TBJ there really aren’t enough recognizable “Names”. No disrespect to people like Ken Smith, Kenny Eineinger, etc… but the “average Joe” doesn’t know them from Adam walking down the street – there is just limited name exposure. Now there are certain players who are developing a following and that is good for TBJ in general but it needs more development

The problem with the second method is that most people haven’t heard of tournament BJ. Everyone knows about poker because of home games and now with the saturation of WSOP, WPT etc… I mean you can’t turn on the TV at night and NOT have a poker show on either Bravo, ESPN3, Travel channel, etc… Casino’s hosting BJT need to do a better job of promoting them. For example the UBT weekly qualifier at the Palms – people wanting to go there were having difficulty finding it. How many casino patrons will be enticed to try something that they don’t know? However, at the WSOB super-satellites lots of people walking by were asking, “what’s going on? How do you get a chance to play? What are they playing for?” The crowd at the tables (and probably TV cameras) drew the curious.

If the local casino’s did a better job of promoting the BJT’s it could increase their potential customer base. Nevertheless it seems that the casino’s are “afraid” of having regular BJT. Why? I mean how many times are there empty tables that could host tourneys? Especially on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon?

Now back to poker versus BJT. While I agree with you that with poker you can play a lot longer with the same bankroll, is that what people are looking for? If I were a casino and I had a choice between a poker tourney and a BJ tourney I would choose the BJ tourney because how much money can I make from a 2-3 day poker tourney? I could host several BJ tourneys during that time, especially with SNG’s. By using your argument then maybe the casinos should switch to the bounty BJ that was held at the Cherokee Casino in Oklahoma recently – that tourney went for over 8 hours (from what I read probably more)

It is my belief that more satellites are needed for BJ tourneys to succeed, especially for the bigger money events. You were right about paying 2,000 and 5 minutes later being gone! Been there – done that and it sucks (1st eliminated on hand 8 Aruba).

Because of those inherit problems with BJT in general that is why I had proposed the regional "super-satellites". Plenty of tourneys (overcomes the 5 minutes and you're out) plenty of satellites (for all players) and plenty of games for TV footage. (Lets face it the more faces on TV the bigger the viewership - see American Idol)

Just my random musings.....

 

[fgk42]

I can almost guarantee that the number of super-satellites for next year's WSOB will be based on need, just as they were this year.

The normal fee for a WSOB seat is $50,000 to the casinos. The $2,500 (6-players) only brought in $15,000 and the $1,000 (18-players) only $18,000 per seat given away.

So my point is should GSN sell more seats to the casinos next year, the number of super-satellite seats will drop.

Now for something even more important to worry about, we have to hope the rating numbers are good enough that GSN brings the WSOB back next year.

But on the other hand, I have heard talk of going to 60 players, maybe even 80 players for the WSOB, but as of this time they are only rumors.

TX, what about the loss of revenue to GSN by their invites?

By having "The King" (Burger King - not King Ken), the baseball player, the actress, etc...GSN forfeited potential income for "stars".

The invites are GSN's and that is why the WSOB shouldn't be considered a real BJ tourney. It's a TV show about a tourney.

Ratings - yes that will be the ultimate deciding factor about wether there is a WSOB season 5.

As far as opening the number of slots from 40 to 60 or 80 would be fine. But why not just have a heavly promoted WSOB event with a month of satellites held at a casino (like WSOP did at the Rio) with TV crews?

There are unlimited possibilities - including what they did this year. I just think that the more we discuss the topic, the more ideas that can emerge and in the long run have a better product and isn't that what is best for the game?

 

[maxwell]

prise money

Keep In Mind That Prise Pool Went From 250k To 500k To 1mill And To One Mill:d :d Maybe Just Maybe Next Year Will Be 2 Mill With The Same 40 Entries:d :d