Phil Dunaway
Member
Hey gang, Having quote "celebs" pay 10k to get into the finals for the 2 mil tournament may be ok,however,shouldn't they pay their 1 thousand like the rest of us & fight their way thru the rounds? Only seems fair! Phil D.
10 thou free ride
- Thread starter Phil Dunaway
- Start date
Overlay
The 10K price tag that would be put on the seat will be in excess of it's value.Thats where the overlay is at, with 1.560 million at the finals divided by 200 players makes the seat have a value of 7,800 dollars.
So as you can see the 40 seats that would be available for sale would create an overlay for the people that earned their way in through the monthly qualifiers.If the 40 seats could all be sold it would generate additional prize money of 400,000.What ever amount of seats can be sold would up the prize money. I think it's a good idea but public opinion will have the final say and that why we are posting it here to hear feedback
The 10K price tag that would be put on the seat will be in excess of it's value.Thats where the overlay is at, with 1.560 million at the finals divided by 200 players makes the seat have a value of 7,800 dollars.
So as you can see the 40 seats that would be available for sale would create an overlay for the people that earned their way in through the monthly qualifiers.If the 40 seats could all be sold it would generate additional prize money of 400,000.What ever amount of seats can be sold would up the prize money. I think it's a good idea but public opinion will have the final say and that why we are posting it here to hear feedback
Funny You Ask That
How funny is this,just today I had a conversation with John R .a top local player here in Las Vegas.The topic was how much of a percentage could a top player give up and still have a edge.Considering all the talk as of late in regards to keeping Blackjack Tournaments alive and allowing the casinos or whoever was running the tournament to collect a fee to offset expenses and show some sort of profit.
We both concluded that we could off set a 10% vig against a normal field of players and still have some EV left.The field that played at the Hilton was used as a example and we both concluded that we could overcome the 10% fee against this field.We also said that against the Frontier crowd and format that we would be pushing the limits there.
So to answer your question would I pay 10K for a seat that is worth 7.8K that is something that I hope never to have to decide.I hope you are not looking into your crystal ball and seeing this for me in my near future.But starting off with a 22% hole to fill is looking like a pass for me
But when I qualify, which I have every intention to do I would like to know that there could be up to a extra 400,000 in the prize pool that already is better than the Hilton's stingy final table payout's with the extra money via the re-buys.
Remember the players will have the final say if this 2 Million Dollar Tournament is a sucess.If it gets the support that I believe it will from the players who are just itching to play for a whole lot of money we may never look back as this will grow every year.
Just look at what online poker sites have done to the WSOP it has gone from 600 players to almost 6,000 players in the last 2 years
There is something in the works that I'm not a liberty to talk about but it will have a resounding effect on blackjack tournaments and I can see every monthly qualifier being sold out to its limit of 240 players.This will drive the prize pool to over 3.4 Million Dollars.
The best news about this tournament is that they will be no hoops to jump through.No side play required, its your choice to play or not.No being removed from the tournament before the semi-finals because you didn't put in the required play or bet size. No hearing that you cant play because you are to good. Its all about put up your money and lets get the cards in the air and make someone a new Millionaire this year and every year after that.
In a side note you best learn how to count chips or just rely on pure ass luck because if I have any input here I say leave it just the way it is a countdown before the last 5 hands.
Your comments and feedback to this will not go unheard I promise you that .Remember this is your tournament tell us what you want before it starts.We have put a lot of work into getting this done lets show everyone who said NO to us that this could have been at your casino but you said that will never work.
KennyE and I hope to have some good news for you on this Thursday show listen in hear it first on www.klav1230am.com/lowbandwith/liveonair.htm show airs at 6 P.M. Pacific Time
How funny is this,just today I had a conversation with John R .a top local player here in Las Vegas.The topic was how much of a percentage could a top player give up and still have a edge.Considering all the talk as of late in regards to keeping Blackjack Tournaments alive and allowing the casinos or whoever was running the tournament to collect a fee to offset expenses and show some sort of profit.
We both concluded that we could off set a 10% vig against a normal field of players and still have some EV left.The field that played at the Hilton was used as a example and we both concluded that we could overcome the 10% fee against this field.We also said that against the Frontier crowd and format that we would be pushing the limits there.
So to answer your question would I pay 10K for a seat that is worth 7.8K that is something that I hope never to have to decide.I hope you are not looking into your crystal ball and seeing this for me in my near future.But starting off with a 22% hole to fill is looking like a pass for me
But when I qualify, which I have every intention to do I would like to know that there could be up to a extra 400,000 in the prize pool that already is better than the Hilton's stingy final table payout's with the extra money via the re-buys.
Remember the players will have the final say if this 2 Million Dollar Tournament is a sucess.If it gets the support that I believe it will from the players who are just itching to play for a whole lot of money we may never look back as this will grow every year.
Just look at what online poker sites have done to the WSOP it has gone from 600 players to almost 6,000 players in the last 2 years
There is something in the works that I'm not a liberty to talk about but it will have a resounding effect on blackjack tournaments and I can see every monthly qualifier being sold out to its limit of 240 players.This will drive the prize pool to over 3.4 Million Dollars.
The best news about this tournament is that they will be no hoops to jump through.No side play required, its your choice to play or not.No being removed from the tournament before the semi-finals because you didn't put in the required play or bet size. No hearing that you cant play because you are to good. Its all about put up your money and lets get the cards in the air and make someone a new Millionaire this year and every year after that.
In a side note you best learn how to count chips or just rely on pure ass luck because if I have any input here I say leave it just the way it is a countdown before the last 5 hands.
Your comments and feedback to this will not go unheard I promise you that .Remember this is your tournament tell us what you want before it starts.We have put a lot of work into getting this done lets show everyone who said NO to us that this could have been at your casino but you said that will never work.
KennyE and I hope to have some good news for you on this Thursday show listen in hear it first on www.klav1230am.com/lowbandwith/liveonair.htm show airs at 6 P.M. Pacific Time
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Give or take?
When you offer a Give or Take option to a player that is as fair as it gets. That is all the $10,000 buy-in at the finals is about. Yes someone can just buy their way in to the finals, but as Joep pointed out at a 22% overlay.
This Final buy-in isn't just for the celebrities we have been mentioning, but for all the players you and I included.
Also think about the players that will buy their way in? These players won't be the "Pro's" as they are commonly called here. These will be just average to below average players that are willing to build up the final prize pool buy paying the 22% overlay.
I welcome all 40 of them with open arms.
When you offer a Give or Take option to a player that is as fair as it gets. That is all the $10,000 buy-in at the finals is about. Yes someone can just buy their way in to the finals, but as Joep pointed out at a 22% overlay.
This Final buy-in isn't just for the celebrities we have been mentioning, but for all the players you and I included.
Also think about the players that will buy their way in? These players won't be the "Pro's" as they are commonly called here. These will be just average to below average players that are willing to build up the final prize pool buy paying the 22% overlay.
I welcome all 40 of them with open arms.
PhillyPhlash
New Member
One Vote Against
It's all very fine to discuss the statistics of expected values and the "overlay" the 40 additonal $10,000-buy-in-contestants would have to overcome. (Actually I don't think "overlay" is the correct term . . . it's more like an "underlay" or "inverted-overlay" or "negative-overlay" for the $10,000 buy-in-guy, no?) But with regard to this specific proposed tournament, the fact is none of us are gonna get into the "long run" to take advantage of any possible statistical advantage.
Here's the bottom line:
Original Plan: $1.56-million pool and 200 players
Proposed variation (fully subscribed): $2.00-million and 240 players
Quick and dirty math suggests a roughly 28% rise in prize money with only a 17% decrease in the likelihood of making the final table. Looks good, eh?
And if I were playing a game 1000 times for either (a)$1,560 against 200 opponents or for (b)$2,000 against 240 opponents I'd choose the (b) higher prize-pool. The shot at, say, a third-place prize of $150 instead of $120 multiple times justifies the lower chance of winning for me; it should appeal to those who fancy themselves more skilled even more.
But if I'm playing one time (or even one time annually) for either (a)$1.56-million against 200 opponents or (b)$2.00-million against 240 opponents I'd choose (a) the higher chance of winning. Raising the, again say, third-place prize from $120,000 to $150,000 does not justify the lower chance of winning for me. $120,000 is a lot of money already.
I'm sure there's some statistician out there who can put a name to this gambler's dilemma.
P.S In the interest of full-disclosure if I were to fail to qualify in a monthly tournament I would not pay $10,000 for a seat in the Finals . . . ever! $10,000 is a lot of money already.
It's all very fine to discuss the statistics of expected values and the "overlay" the 40 additonal $10,000-buy-in-contestants would have to overcome. (Actually I don't think "overlay" is the correct term . . . it's more like an "underlay" or "inverted-overlay" or "negative-overlay" for the $10,000 buy-in-guy, no?) But with regard to this specific proposed tournament, the fact is none of us are gonna get into the "long run" to take advantage of any possible statistical advantage.
Here's the bottom line:
Original Plan: $1.56-million pool and 200 players
Proposed variation (fully subscribed): $2.00-million and 240 players
Quick and dirty math suggests a roughly 28% rise in prize money with only a 17% decrease in the likelihood of making the final table. Looks good, eh?
And if I were playing a game 1000 times for either (a)$1,560 against 200 opponents or for (b)$2,000 against 240 opponents I'd choose the (b) higher prize-pool. The shot at, say, a third-place prize of $150 instead of $120 multiple times justifies the lower chance of winning for me; it should appeal to those who fancy themselves more skilled even more.
But if I'm playing one time (or even one time annually) for either (a)$1.56-million against 200 opponents or (b)$2.00-million against 240 opponents I'd choose (a) the higher chance of winning. Raising the, again say, third-place prize from $120,000 to $150,000 does not justify the lower chance of winning for me. $120,000 is a lot of money already.
I'm sure there's some statistician out there who can put a name to this gambler's dilemma.
P.S In the interest of full-disclosure if I were to fail to qualify in a monthly tournament I would not pay $10,000 for a seat in the Finals . . . ever! $10,000 is a lot of money already.
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Philly is right
If $10,000 is a lot of money (to me anyway) and if I didn't make it in during one of the monthly qualifiers I would just have to come to the finals hoping for one of the wild cards.
One inpmortant note that we haven't address yet is the betting limits and starting amounts for the 2Million event.
I would love something like the New Fronter format, everybody already agrees that is the best format (or was).
I think $1,000 starting bankroll with limits of $5 to $200 would make fro a great tournament. What do ya'll think?
If $10,000 is a lot of money (to me anyway) and if I didn't make it in during one of the monthly qualifiers I would just have to come to the finals hoping for one of the wild cards.
One inpmortant note that we haven't address yet is the betting limits and starting amounts for the 2Million event.
I would love something like the New Fronter format, everybody already agrees that is the best format (or was).
I think $1,000 starting bankroll with limits of $5 to $200 would make fro a great tournament. What do ya'll think?
2m bj tournament opinion
I personally like txtourplayer minimum and maximum bet of 5-200 with a 1000 bankroll. I believe this would keep most all sessions close right up to the last hand. It would be a real downer to put up $1000 and be out of the tournament in like two hands because someone got lucky with a big max bet usually accompanied by a double down win. Also just want to throw out there for feedback 3 countdowns: after hands 15 20 and 25. Finally just want to thank all you experienced players for your hard work in advancing blackjack tournaments.
I personally like txtourplayer minimum and maximum bet of 5-200 with a 1000 bankroll. I believe this would keep most all sessions close right up to the last hand. It would be a real downer to put up $1000 and be out of the tournament in like two hands because someone got lucky with a big max bet usually accompanied by a double down win. Also just want to throw out there for feedback 3 countdowns: after hands 15 20 and 25. Finally just want to thank all you experienced players for your hard work in advancing blackjack tournaments.