Blackjack 21 Protects its Players

B

bear

New Member
Hey Gang,

Bear here.... hoping all is well with everyone!

I'll keep this short and sweet so we can all get on with our final four lives! Go HEELS!

Our decision to reply to the post "Warning, Thieves in Blackjack 21" was to provide a response to players that play on our site and to provide some clarity to this ridiculous accusation. As far as we're concerned, the irony of a thief in Blackjack 21 has been extinguished.

We do a pretty darn good job of providing the entertainment we provide! We've got a proven track record. If you are a Blackjack 21 player, you know this. There aren't many active Blackjack 21 players on this forum, but for the very important few of you, we'd like you to be aware that we employ a fraud protection system for your benefit.

I'll repeat, we employ fraud protection as a service to our players. Our game is not a game where the 'House' wins. Yes, we charge a commission to play at our tables. No, we don't collect on wins or losses.

If our game is compromised or if someone has discovered a way to cheat the game, it is the players that are affected. Our players are our responsibility.

If we have reason to believe our game or our players have been compromised in any way, then we're going to investigate.

Are multiple IP's fraudulent? NO. This occurs, but we're going to watch it. Is card counting fraudulent? NO. We actually provide a shoe that identifys the count of cards remaining in the shoe. If there are discrepancies in the responses to some of our ludicrous questions, is this fraudulent? Not necessarily. Is asking some of those questions normal in this situation? NO, but this situation was never normal. Do we applaud good play? Absolutely. Do we have other players with strong winning percentages? YES. Have we ever deactivated someone strictly for winning? NO. Are there other specifics related to this player? YES. Do we need to provide these specifics in this forum? NO.

I could continue... but I know you've all got better things to bbq.

Blackjack 21 remains a safe and secure environment catering to the blackjack tournament enthusiast. We have some great players that play on our site. Competition is fierce, especially in our heads up game. We've got a tremendous community of players that is growing and growing. If you'd like to check us out, then you are more than welcome. We'd love to have you in our tiny little abode. If not, then that is okay too. We know we can please everyone.

Sincerely,

Bear
 
bear said:
I'll repeat, we employ fraud protection as a service to our players.
Click to expand...
I was your player. Protect me from your own fraud please.

bear said:
Are multiple IP's fraudulent? NO.
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LOL. Firstly you accused me of using 'multiple accounts' and later said it was legal.

bear said:
Are there other specifics related to this player? YES. Do we need to provide these specifics in this forum? NO.
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Heh. My specifics turned out so specific that you didn't say reasons of my deactivation not only in this forum but even in our private correspondence.
You don't like my nickname, Windows version or may be my eye color?
But something tells me that you just don't like when anybody wins money on your site. You have to suffer London_Colin as a popular member of this forum but you are very disinclined to have such good players. For disliked player you have convenient reference to 'fraud detection software' and at any time you simply can close his account.

I think you have only one opportunity to partially rehabilitate yourself, return me my money.
 
KenSmith said:
So, bmax, do you have multiple accounts? Just curious.
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In adjacent thread I said that my friend had account there. But we never used it for defrauding other players. We never played in same single-table tournament and only 1 or 2 times accidentally got into one table in multi-table tournaments. And I don't honestly know how it could be used for our advantage. The lion's share of my profit had been achieved in 'Mano-a-Mano' game type.
 
fraud????

I would like to know exactly what online casinos consider fraudulent. Are the following situations considered fraud:

Playing multifarious accounts to gain an advantage?
Using team play to gain an advantage?
Employing electronic devices to keep exact true card counts?
Hacking the game software?

Please list all fraudulent practices.

What does everybody think would be fradulent activity?

tgun
 
tgun

You know. I don't know. On line, the only thing I can think of, other than a corrupt or skewed "provider" program, would be if someone could develop a "program" that countered the sites program. Even if randomness wasn't totally random as accused of some sites, most players are at the same advantage/disadvantage.

The danger of on line is running into a geek, who isn't in it for the competition or the game, but for the advantage that they could employ else where as well. If you or I don't know or recognize that, then we are the fish.

I think right now, we have a "he" said, "she" said. No one else has "said."

Sooooo. No rating from the ratings folks. Not even AS site. I stay away.
 
How is this Possible?

After learning about Blackjack 21 through this site and anxious to find a change of scenery for my near compulsive playing, I checked out the site - as much as possible without being a registered member. I discovered their fee schedule for withdrawals. Certain I was misinterpreting this information and not believing it plausible that such an excessive and outrageous fee would dare be charged by a company who at all valued its customers, I wrote the site seeking clarification. In fact, I was not misinterpreting this information.

To take up to forty (40%) percent of my funds - my funds - simply because I want to withdraw them seems to surpass unfair and unreasonable and occupy the realm of unconscionable. Although I don’t believe it a customer friendly practice to charge any amount merely for making a withdrawal, I believe that each of my UB withdrawals, all of which were for several hundred to a couple thousand, only cost me seven or eight bucks.

Can someone tell me if such a high amount of fees is common among other online casinos or if Blackjack 21 is an extreme example? I also wonder if I am the only one that took such offense to this policy. Even if I could possible justify paying out such a substantial portion of my money just to get my money, it produced a larger concern for me. If I can’t trust a company to treat me with fairness on this issue and even minimally appreciate my patronage, then how vulnerable would I be to all the other issues and practices of this site that I do not know about? I was very disappointed to discover this. I was truly hoping for that change of scenery. Thank you in advance to anyone able or willing to answer my questions.
 
Fees

UB's $8 fee for a check by mail is very reasonable compared to some sites - besides the fees to withdraw - some of the deposit methods available through blackjack21 (and other sites) also have fees attached - and these fees can be a very high percentage of your deposit - so you can get hit both coming and going -

personally - I feel that it is understandable that a site may want to cover its costs in issuing a chack, etc. - but blackjack21's fees are far above that level - withdrawals are a profit center for them, certainly - and that does not seem right -
 
BrokBakCowboy said:
After learning about Blackjack 21 through this site and anxious to find a change of scenery for my near compulsive playing, I checked out the site - as much as possible without being a registered member. I discovered their fee schedule for withdrawals. Certain I was misinterpreting this information and not believing it plausible that such an excessive and outrageous fee would dare be charged by a company who at all valued its customers, I wrote the site seeking clarification. In fact, I was not misinterpreting this information.

To take up to forty (40%) percent of my funds - my funds - simply because I want to withdraw them seems to surpass unfair and unreasonable and occupy the realm of unconscionable. Although I don’t believe it a customer friendly practice to charge any amount merely for making a withdrawal, I believe that each of my UB withdrawals, all of which were for several hundred to a couple thousand, only cost me seven or eight bucks.

Can someone tell me if such a high amount of fees is common among other online casinos or if Blackjack 21 is an extreme example? I also wonder if I am the only one that took such offense to this policy. Even if I could possible justify paying out such a substantial portion of my money just to get my money, it produced a larger concern for me. If I can’t trust a company to treat me with fairness on this issue and even minimally appreciate my patronage, then how vulnerable would I be to all the other issues and practices of this site that I do not know about? I was very disappointed to discover this. I was truly hoping for that change of scenery. Thank you in advance to anyone able or willing to answer my questions.
Click to expand...

You are certainly not the only one to be disappointed by this. I asked a similar question here some time ago, but no one responded. -
https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/posts/30690

As you can see from the above link, I found a way to make a free withdrawal, hidden away on the web site, and all seemed well. However, now I've come to the point where I want to make further withdrawals, that option seems to have been (silently) removed. It now reads -
FEES: $0-$500 = $15 fees
$500.01 - $1,000 = $30 fees
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So, according to that, there is effectively a minimum 3% fee for withdrawals.

I've been steeling myself to contact customer services and thrash this out. It may be that the free-on-fridays option is still available; interestingly I checked one of their partner sites, and it is still listed there -
http://www.bookmaker.com/cashier-withdrawals.aspx
And the blackjack21.com web site does seem to be poorly maintained, when it comes to accurate, up-to-date information.

I'm a bit hazy on how all this works, but my understanding is that payment processing is handled by a third party, which is presumably levying the fees. It then becomes a question of whether these fees are absorbed by the house, or pased on to the customers. I did briefly meet with the boss of blackjack21 when he was in London, and he talked about some of this, but much of it went over my head. :)

If you haven't opened an account yet (or even if you have), it might be worth going through the list of partner sites to see if they all use the same payment processing system, or if any of them offer better deals. (Regardless of the fees issue, I know some of them periodically offer free entry into tournaments when you make a deposit into their sportsbooks.)

N.B. I was focusing on Neteller and Moneybookers as my preferred options, being oustside the US, but I notice that bookmaker.com does not seem to list any fees for a bank draft.
 
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YIKES. It's beginning to appear to me that there's some element of chicanery in all TBJ websites.
Blackjack.com won't pay off.
UB/Bet21 still won't cash me out, even though over 80% of it was my $$$ to start with.
And now this business about Blackjack 21's unreasonable fees. :eek:

One should not have to skulk around looking for loopholes to be treated fairly.
 
London:

Thank you and the others who replied to my inquiry. I saw the fee schedule that you posted, but the email they sent me states the follow:

2. The cost of a withdrawal via check has varied costs:



$50-$100 (Always regular mail) = $20 fee

$101-$1,000 (Regular mail) = $30 fee

$101-$1,000 (Express mail) = $50 fee


Applying this structure, a withdrawal of $50.00 would cost $20 or 40%. Also, although I know that minimum withdrawal amounts are common among the many sites, am I further to understand that if you have less than $50 on this or other sites and I should decide, for whatever reason, that I no longer wish to play or play on that particular site, my only options are to surrender my money or intentionally dump it?

I've had some decent luck on UB, but many players, including myself when starting to play online, are just incidental players who enjoy a little card play on occassion. For those, it seems like they have limited options. Once a minimum deposit of $50 is paid, they must either wager and lose the entire amount or they must have enough success to win more than their deposit.

I see every type of player being an esential component of the overall gaming atmosphere ranging from the incidental player to the novice to the more experienced and the professional. Each lends value and benefit to other. Aren't these policies then significantly disadvantaging the occassional player, a segment that I would think vital to the success of any online gaming site?

Perhaps knowing the answer to these questions ultimately have little benefit to myself and many others, but I have a curiosity about the climate and mechanics of online gaming that is nearly equal to my desire to continually improve my playing skills and these issues have just leapt out at me.

Thanks again to you and all who have taken the time to respond to my questions.
 
UB withdrawals

I think I have said this before - but I have never had a problem withdrawing money from UltimateBet - and the fee for a check to be mailed (the only way to send money to US residents) to you is always a set $8 regardless of amount - if you are withdrawing the minimum of $50, then this is a good percentage of your money - but if withdrawing $800, is only 1%. and with UB, there is no 'send photo id and credit card info' hassle if your withdrawals are kept under $3,000 each.

I don't know what the hassle is with LeftNut's account - but - was the account set up on UltimateBet or on Bet21? My understanding was that, while the tourneys were the same, as Bet21 is a skin of UltimateBet, and while you could play either set with either account, the accounts were actually specific to each site - meaning a Bet21 account was maintained by that site, and not maintained by UltimateBet -

If the account is a Bet21 maintained account - meaning they have possession of the actual money, I somehow am not surprized that they aren't letting go of it - as they have been pretty scammy from the start; if it's an UltimateBet account - then I am surprized, as they have been honest in my dealings with them.

Final comment, UltimateBet, at least for US residents, also uses a third party for the money transfer, so using a third party does not explain the high fees on Blackjack21.
 
I switched to UB...

from Bet21 six months ago fearing that kind of withdrawal problems. My withdrawals at UB, through Instadebit, are processed quickly (3 business days) with no fees.
 
If you at both Bet21 & UB, look at your account on each & you will find that the balances are exactly the same. Can you not draw from the UB account??
 
UB/BEt21

Springbac

I think what you see is the same account - UB shows and lets you bet with a Bet21 account - while the Bet21 skin lets you access a UB account and play through Bet21 -

I think that Bet21 and UB actually maintain separate accounts - just that they can be accessed through each other - and Bet21 makes money when a player uses a Bet21 account to gamble on -

I have not had any problems with a UB account - people with Bet21 accounts seem to have problems at times - so think they must be different account systems - or - UB handles Bet21 accounts according to Bet21 policies?
 
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