Four Winds Michigan

angelrun5

angelrun5

Member
Well great news for everyone that did not like last month's tournament at Four Winds! They have listened to the players and made some changes to the rules, making it a fairer event for everyone.

COST OF TOURNAMENT
The Buy-in is $60.00
Additional 1,000 chip gratuity add-on may be purchased for $5.00 (not included in prize pool)

REGISTRATION
Buy-in at Poker Cage
Bring paid receipt to tournament area registration table to randomly draw table and seating assignment

PARTICIPATION
Four Winds Casino Resort Players W-Card membership is required
Minimum of 14 players
Maximum of 144 players

TOURNAMENT FORMAT
Starting stack = 5,000 Tournament chips (1,000 chip add-on available for $5.00)
Eighteen (18) hands played in preliminary rounds
Top two scorers from each preliminary round table advance to Semi-Final round
PLUS SIX (6) BONUS SPOTS – 3 TOP (non table-winner) SCORERS and 3 SECOND CHANCE drawing winners
Twenty-One (21) hands played in Semi- Final & Final rounds
Starting stack = 10,000 in Semi-Final round/ 20,000 Final Round
Table winners from Semi-Final round advance to final round (if applicable, top scorers also advance to complete a total of 7 players to start the Final round)
 
Four Winds

Thanks anglerun5 for updated info.

I'm somewhat surprised "they" listened to players. Wonder who they were, TX?

Question: Is the $5 add on for $1,000 chips the same as the "gratuity" 1,000 chips for $5. Gratuity meaning it's not added to prize pool as you stated, or is the gratuity $5 for the extra chips, dealer gratuity? I guess in any case, for $5 you get an extra 1,000 in chips for the prelim. only?

The larger player possibility 144 vs. 98 last month provides a bigger payout.
Hope registration is still 5:30 with reasonable time. And just because it's this site, anyone going should register early to grab a first round spot, with the potential for rebuying.

Last month was 7 or 8 players short of max and at least three knowledgeable folks rebought for the second round.(Even though rules didn't mention re-buys.) To belabor the point:if the turnout is the same this month there would be at least 50 re-buys available.

Potential prize pool $8,640. Last month first was 40 per cent.

anglerun5 see if you can move up in the standings this month.
 
I've updated the Calendar with the information you provided, angelrun5. Thanks for the posting. The Calendar posting may not be 100% accurate as I was unsure about a couple of minor details so I made an educated guess here and there. After the July 7, 2009 tournament is run, the Calendar can then be accurately updated.

COMMENT:
With 3 rounds (and I assume 3 sessions for Round 1) starting at 7:30 Eastern (see below), this makes for a very late running tournament for a weekday. That could hurt attendance. I can't see 144 players (including re-buys) participating especially since about 90 participated out of a possible 98 in the first monthly in June, 2009. The first event in June drew a good crowd but since this is a monthly, many will not return every month. Most don't know the difference between good and bad rules so rule changes will have little effect on attendance. Could be wrong - have to wait and see over the next several months.

NOW LISTEN UP EVERYONE:
I think registration starts at 5:30 Eastern with play starting at 7:30 Eastern because that was the way it was in June, 2009.
Do your own research. I don't even want to think about angelrun5's wrath if I'm wrong!!! :D :eek: :D
 
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Four Winds

As Toolman1 stated. Registration started at 5:30. Not one second before. There was adequate signage directing players.

The rule changes posted by Anglerun5 were in effect. And to answer my earlier question to her, the extra $5 gave one $1,000 extra in chips for the preliminary rounds. And that extra $5 went to dealer tokes.

Three prelim rounds, non full, but a little over 110 entries with rebuys.

Strange sight: As in most tourneys, rules state, no coaching, no discussion of strategy at table, no help or conversation with observers. So two players are in a playoff having tied for third highest chip total in prelims. Three highest non qualifiers, plus three wild cards go to semis. Before the six hand playoff starts, it is announced that one of the players is a wild card. That player, win or lose in the playoff is going to the semis.

So play starts and goes to the sixth and final hand. The player who is in anyway has 1,900, the other player, a swell lady has 2,000. The made player betting first on final hand bets the 1,900. The swell lady, betting second bets 2,000, where upon a floor man(not the tourney director) grabs her chips, puts 1,900 in the betting circle and shoves a 100 chip back to her, telling her that's what she needs to do.

The made player mildly protests, stating that not withstanding the rules, his win opens another wild card draw and though it would be a nice gesture, since he's in anyway to dump and let the lady in, its not ethical, or fair to another potential wild card. The floor man somewhat begrudgingly agrees and pushes all the chips back to the lady, who then bets 1,900 and holds 100 back. Made player wins hand. Sweet lady loses hand. And dats dat.

Other than one certain dealer announcing the amount of everyone's bet, the tourney was smooth, efficient, well run and kind of fun. Tourney team and dealers are in top percentile of events I've played in

I got to semis as did others in the two advance. But that's as far as I got. I saw some skilled play. Some may wonder why I go on about this kinda small tourney, but for those of us in the Great Lakes, it's just ab out all we got.
 
This event needs some help. Overall, the rules are set up to get the event over with before 12:00 midnight since the tournament is held on a weekday. Their wildcard procedure is poor as is the method for assigning seats for advancing players. Not to mention the fact that there is no published starting times for each session other than the first. Also, the countdown (with 4 hands left to play) procedures leave much to be desired. The defects pointed out by noman are also valid. On the positive side, dealers seem to be well trained as I did not personally see any dealer errors. Also, there is no pre-set time limit to make a bet or play a hand.

As far as attendance, I think they said the prize pool was about $5,800. So at $60.00 each that makes 97 entries including re-buys. So I would guess there were maybe 70-75 players - that's about a 20% decrease from their first tournament last month. Not a great showing and I would guess it will continue to deteriorate over time.

They need some tweaking and should consider changing the tournament to a Saturday or Sunday. If they start registration early, say about 8:00am, then start playing at 9:00am or 9:30am, and improve the rules for advancing (which will add to the length of the tournament), they could get the tournament over by about 3:00pm which is before the evening crowd arrives. That would also keep the players in the casino longer thereby increasing the side action.

But as noman pointed out "for those of us in the Great Lakes, it's just ab out all we got".

PS: Be sure to bring a magnifying glass to read the rules. The printing is reduced in size to fit on both sides of a single 8 1/2 x 11 sheet.
 
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Really?

Some midwesterners have decent tournament opportunities by virtue of their home location. Twin cities residents have Grand Casino at Hinckley, Turtle Lake (in WI), Meskwaki at Tama, IA and others as easy drive tourneys with good "seat values".
Several of them venture over to St. Ignace, MI for three events per year (also good seat value) but a long drive with good scenery. They can also catch a "fill in" event now and then at Ho Chunk in Baraboo, WI and a few other venues on occasion.
Here again, it totally depends on where you live (sorry LeftNut,Angelrun, toolman1, noman? and some others) but many "gophers" and "cheeseheads" have it pretty good!

Billy C
 
New To Tournaments

For a venue that is still on the learning curve hosting blackjack tournaments, they did an overall nice job. Agree with the previous comments. I'd add that the one-advance semifinal is the one big downer of this event, but one-advance semifinals seem to be pretty common.

Another suggestion of mine would be to disallow drinking at the tables. A player next to me had his beer bottle right on the felt and it seemed like he would knock it over and spill it sometimes. Their tables don't have a solid ledge to put drinks and other material on.

One final suggestion would be to tell the dealers never to draw out to 21 and push me when I'm on an all in double down of hard 13 and pull an 8! :violin:

Noman, we could've been playing against each other and not known it. I was the dork wearing a Packers t-shirt.
 
Turtle Lake Casino Wisconsin

Monkeysystem Billy C Leftnut Angelrun5 Have not seen your happy face"s at turtle lake casino in Wisconsin seen monkeysystem there a few time's but no one else it is 1 of the best run tournament's in the midwest great dealers and A great tournament director Bob, $5,000.00 guaranteed pot every week got lucky last night won 1st place it paid $2,238.00 every tuesday night first round start's at 4 pm 5pm 6pm 7pm semi at 8pm final table at 9pm, the hotel rate's are very cheap, buy in is 35.00 rebuy 35.00 4 rounds 1 advance 4 high chip's every one is welcome to come and play and walk away with a nice chunk of change hope to see you all there
 
Love to-----but

doug olson said:
Monkeysystem Billy C Leftnut Angelrun5 Have not seen your happy face"s at turtle lake casino in Wisconsin seen monkeysystem there a few time's but no one else it is 1 of the best run tournament's in the midwest great dealers and A great tournament director Bob, $5,000.00 guaranteed pot every week got lucky last night won 1st place it paid $2,238.00 every tuesday night first round start's at 4 pm 5pm 6pm 7pm semi at 8pm final table at 9pm, the hotel rate's are very cheap, buy in is 35.00 rebuy 35.00 4 rounds 1 advance 4 high chip's every one is welcome to come and play and walk away with a nice chunk of change hope to see you all there
Click to expand...

doug,
I'd love to be there but would have to leave work (business) and drive way too far for that size purse.
See you July 19?????? Schultzy??????
Also, congratulations to you for your win!

Billy C
 
Wrong thread

Post #10 by noman should be moved to the thread titled "Midwest Weekly Tournament Tour" but I don't know how to do that.

Billy C
 
Back to Four Winds discussion.....

Monkeysystem is right, they're still in the learning curve but they did listen to many well-intended contributions from their players and made quite a few good changes. They've still got some tweaking to do, we'll see if they're willing. I'd give the first one a 2 on a 1-10, and a 6 of 10 for this latest one. These seem to be good folks running the tournaments. I've got high hopes for the future.

Four Winds changed the starting time from 7:30 PM to 7:00 PM with little or no notice. Fortunately, since I arrange travel times to allow for unforseen problems, we still arrived in plenty of time to get in. If someone would like to change the start time in the tournament listings, that would be excellent since I don't know how.

As for Turtle Lake and etc., those are just way too far for us. We'd be looking at one or even two overnight stays, so the tournament sizes simply don't justify such time and expense. The one up there which might interest me is that Hawg Wild BJT but the prize fund is just so insanely top-loaded with a merchandise prize that I don't want. Damn.

Noman, you mentioned that you didn't go to the St. Ignace events. IMHO, big mistake. That tournament is still the best deal in the Midwest, possibly in the country. And I say that in spite of not being able to crack an egg in that joint!! :p
 
Just got an email from the TD at Four Winds. The August event will have no changes from this month's. Apparently they got hit with quite a few suggestions to make the event more appealing and/or run smoother, but it's an onerous internal process that they must navigate to have any changes. I will be there for this next one.
 
Calendar?

Would someone please put this on the calendar. I'm guessing it's distance prohibitive for me but it should be on there.
Thanks!

Billy C
 
October 6, 2009 attendance?

Did anyone attend the October 6, 2009 BJT at the Four Winds? If so, I'm curious about the attendance. They have been losing players every month since they started the tournament. Did that continue in October?
 
I attended the 11/03/09 BJT. They had about 70 players and with re-buys the prize pool approached $6,000. Not bad for a monthly tournament held on a week day.

I spoke to a person who I think is the tournament director or at least he was doing the announcing on the PA system. I asked if there were any plans to change this to a Saturday or Sunday event. The answer was no. They seem to have enough promotions during the weekends. This tournament was, and still is, meant to bring in players during the slow mid-week period and the dates will not be changed.
 
A little more info

If you had attended, you could have seen the smiling faces of Toolman and Jonny21 at the finals table.

I also spoke to management. The December 1 tourney is the last one currently scheduled. The guy I spoke with didn't know what the plans for 2010 were.
 
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