Global-Player point system
- Thread starter TXtourplayer
- Start date
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Another log on the fire...
While we are trying to figure out what the best point format would be, lets throw in the fact that there are 4 total possible entries for these Sit & Go events.
There is a $5 happy hour with only one winner.
There is the $15 + $1 we have been discussing (paying top 2 places).
The $30 + $2 which also pays top two places.
And the $50 + $5 which also pays the top two places.
Now the problem with having all of these different entry fees is that they all award the same points as one another.
How can someone getting to play in the afternoon for $5 per game be awarded the same as the evening players having to pay over 3 times as much to play? That is a hugh advantage for the $5 player in terms of expense.
To play for money is one thing, but playing for points (that all go towards bonus money) is another.
Other than S.Yama and myself, no one has suggested a point system for these sit & go events. Lets have some more suggestions in from other players, lets hear what you want and think would be fair.
While we are trying to figure out what the best point format would be, lets throw in the fact that there are 4 total possible entries for these Sit & Go events.
There is a $5 happy hour with only one winner.
There is the $15 + $1 we have been discussing (paying top 2 places).
The $30 + $2 which also pays top two places.
And the $50 + $5 which also pays the top two places.
Now the problem with having all of these different entry fees is that they all award the same points as one another.
How can someone getting to play in the afternoon for $5 per game be awarded the same as the evening players having to pay over 3 times as much to play? That is a hugh advantage for the $5 player in terms of expense.
To play for money is one thing, but playing for points (that all go towards bonus money) is another.
Other than S.Yama and myself, no one has suggested a point system for these sit & go events. Lets have some more suggestions in from other players, lets hear what you want and think would be fair.
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I don't Know
Quote TX tourplayer
Other than S.Yama and myself, no one has suggested a point system for these sit & go events. Lets have some more suggestions in from other players, let’s hear what you want and think would be fair.
I made the point on another thread (UBT – leaderboards/Rankings) that although the system wasn’t fair it was not the player’s fault if they were being rewarded for entering a lot of games.
I too would like the points system changed but I don’t know what the best solution would be. I was hoping the more experienced players and the maths guys on here would come up with something new, but up to now it appears that a general consensus can’t be reached.
If the players can’t agree on a different system then you can’t expect the casino’s to make changes and the same problem will appear on UBT as well as Global.
Andy
Ps. I hope this post doesn’t sound like a cop out but I really don’t know what the answer is.
Quote TX tourplayer
Other than S.Yama and myself, no one has suggested a point system for these sit & go events. Lets have some more suggestions in from other players, let’s hear what you want and think would be fair.
I made the point on another thread (UBT – leaderboards/Rankings) that although the system wasn’t fair it was not the player’s fault if they were being rewarded for entering a lot of games.
I too would like the points system changed but I don’t know what the best solution would be. I was hoping the more experienced players and the maths guys on here would come up with something new, but up to now it appears that a general consensus can’t be reached.
If the players can’t agree on a different system then you can’t expect the casino’s to make changes and the same problem will appear on UBT as well as Global.
Andy
Ps. I hope this post doesn’t sound like a cop out but I really don’t know what the answer is.
if you agree on a points format, we'll implement it
I'm surprized to hear that Global Player has deaf ears - we listen very carefully and implement whatever we can to make you happy
The problem with the points scheme is that there are many alternatives and no clear winner. We have nothing against rewarding players with the biggest win percentages, this is what we do in say video poker tournaments. But how do you want to handle $5 vs. $50 sit&go tables? If just by raw money, then whoever wins a $50 table, be it by skill or by chance, will be the leader. That's why we have points. If most of you agree on points that reflect the wins at the most played table, i.e. something like +34, +9, -16, -16, -16, we can switch in zero time. Just agree on something 
I'm surprized to hear that Global Player has deaf ears - we listen very carefully and implement whatever we can to make you happy
The problem with the points scheme is that there are many alternatives and no clear winner. We have nothing against rewarding players with the biggest win percentages, this is what we do in say video poker tournaments. But how do you want to handle $5 vs. $50 sit&go tables? If just by raw money, then whoever wins a $50 table, be it by skill or by chance, will be the leader. That's why we have points. If most of you agree on points that reflect the wins at the most played table, i.e. something like +34, +9, -16, -16, -16, we can switch in zero time. Just agree on something
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Thank you Micha
For those of you that are unaware, Micha works at Global-Player.com.
By bring up this issue on the points not only on this site, but by me sending e-mails direct to Global-Player and their owner we are possibly able to make some changes. This is why I post on things that need to be improved on and why I always ask for everyone’s opinions so I'll know what needs to be changed or corrected.
Now we still don't have an exact point system, but we are now headed in the right direction. And if Micha really wants to start showing that Global-Player wants to work with us then PLEASE start by formatting your games and tournament play with these options:
1. Allow doubling down for less. After splits also.
2. Allow insurance for less.
3. Have the dealer flip blackjack up immediately when a 10
is showing.
These are the few things that make a strategic difference
in tournament play.
As far as the points we will get back with you real soon.
Thanks for caring about what the players want Micha and Global-Player.
For those of you that are unaware, Micha works at Global-Player.com.
By bring up this issue on the points not only on this site, but by me sending e-mails direct to Global-Player and their owner we are possibly able to make some changes. This is why I post on things that need to be improved on and why I always ask for everyone’s opinions so I'll know what needs to be changed or corrected.
Now we still don't have an exact point system, but we are now headed in the right direction. And if Micha really wants to start showing that Global-Player wants to work with us then PLEASE start by formatting your games and tournament play with these options:
1. Allow doubling down for less. After splits also.
2. Allow insurance for less.
3. Have the dealer flip blackjack up immediately when a 10
is showing.
These are the few things that make a strategic difference
in tournament play.
As far as the points we will get back with you real soon.
Thanks for caring about what the players want Micha and Global-Player.
Global
Also, how about adding $5.00 and $2.50 chips. It's a pain to have to add $25, then remove 2 $10 chips, just to add $5.00 to my bet. Especially with the clock running. The $2.50 chips matter because if I want to go all in, sometimes, I still have to leave $2.50 behind.
Also, how about adding $5.00 and $2.50 chips. It's a pain to have to add $25, then remove 2 $10 chips, just to add $5.00 to my bet. Especially with the clock running. The $2.50 chips matter because if I want to go all in, sometimes, I still have to leave $2.50 behind.
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
$2.50 chips
Even in most land based casino tournament the $2.50 chips can only be bet on a double down only. This is to avoid having to pay a blackjack with a $2.50 chip bet. The casinos just don't want to deal with all the extra chips and coins.
Now as far as the $5 chips, I believe Global-Player has $5 on all their games and tournaments other than their Wed. weekly tournaments. Their minimum bet is $10 anyway.
Now on my cruise tournaments I offer $5 minimum bets, but there is a $5 bet on the system already. If your screen doesn't show a $5 chip, click the arrow on the left side of the chips and you should see it there.
Even in most land based casino tournament the $2.50 chips can only be bet on a double down only. This is to avoid having to pay a blackjack with a $2.50 chip bet. The casinos just don't want to deal with all the extra chips and coins.
Now as far as the $5 chips, I believe Global-Player has $5 on all their games and tournaments other than their Wed. weekly tournaments. Their minimum bet is $10 anyway.
Now on my cruise tournaments I offer $5 minimum bets, but there is a $5 bet on the system already. If your screen doesn't show a $5 chip, click the arrow on the left side of the chips and you should see it there.
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Points first
Lets sort out the points system first before we start changing the game around.
Andy
TXtourplayer said:For those of you that are unaware, Micha works at Global-Player.com.
By bring up this issue on the points not only on this site, but by me sending e-mails direct to Global-Player and their owner we are possibly able to make some changes. This is why I post on things that need to be improved on and why I always ask for everyone’s opinions so I'll know what needs to be changed or corrected.
Now we still don't have an exact point system, but we are now headed in the right direction. And if Micha really wants to start showing that Global-Player wants to work with us then PLEASE start by formatting your games and tournament play with these options:
1. Allow doubling down for less. After splits also.
2. Allow insurance for less.
3. Have the dealer flip blackjack up immediately when a 10
is showing.
These are the few things that make a strategic difference
in tournament play.
As far as the points we will get back with you real soon.
Thanks for caring about what the players want Micha and Global-Player.
Lets sort out the points system first before we start changing the game around.
Andy
Similar to the Money
The point system should resemble the cash prizes, to avoid making players choose between points and money. It should also avoid rewarding someone just for playing more than someone else can play. However it should require some minimum number of games to qualify.
I say two points for first, one for second, none for third, fourth, and fifth. You play a minimum of twenty games and your score is your total points divided by your number of games.
Lets change the format to increase the number of hands per round from fifteen to twenty-five or thirty. That'll make the games less like a lottery and more like a card game by giving the big early bettors time to bust themselves out. The only difference this would make for Global Player would be increased activity on their server. Micha would this increased activity on your server cut into your profits in some way?
The point system should resemble the cash prizes, to avoid making players choose between points and money. It should also avoid rewarding someone just for playing more than someone else can play. However it should require some minimum number of games to qualify.
I say two points for first, one for second, none for third, fourth, and fifth. You play a minimum of twenty games and your score is your total points divided by your number of games.
Lets change the format to increase the number of hands per round from fifteen to twenty-five or thirty. That'll make the games less like a lottery and more like a card game by giving the big early bettors time to bust themselves out. The only difference this would make for Global Player would be increased activity on their server. Micha would this increased activity on your server cut into your profits in some way?
Time to Think
If you speed up the games, please don't do it by making the players make their move any faster than we already have to.
One way to speed things up would be an all in button. Another way would be to include a $5 button. Still another would be an option to type in the dollar amount of a bet.
Thank you Micha for taking the time to visit this site and get our feedback - and for offering online table elimination tournament blackjack.
If you speed up the games, please don't do it by making the players make their move any faster than we already have to.
One way to speed things up would be an all in button. Another way would be to include a $5 button. Still another would be an option to type in the dollar amount of a bet.
Thank you Micha for taking the time to visit this site and get our feedback - and for offering online table elimination tournament blackjack.
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Correct all!
Andy, we still haven't got a point system that we agree on yet. I started this thread in hopes of correcting that.
However if Micha is willing to make changes for the players then the list I posted should be the first items Global-Player should fix. These are the items most of the players have complained about and for the longest time.
Now back to the points, I agree we need to change this system or I never would have said anything to begin with, but until we get a workable point system created we can't change what we have.
While Micha is making the other changes we can be working on the point system.
Andy, we still haven't got a point system that we agree on yet. I started this thread in hopes of correcting that.
However if Micha is willing to make changes for the players then the list I posted should be the first items Global-Player should fix. These are the items most of the players have complained about and for the longest time.
Now back to the points, I agree we need to change this system or I never would have said anything to begin with, but until we get a workable point system created we can't change what we have.
While Micha is making the other changes we can be working on the point system.
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TXtourplayer said:
Well, as I've told you already, I think there are more important features to implement first. For instance, many players have asked to remove the "New Game" button so that the next round shows automatically. This is something you need each round, whereas double or insurance for any amount will be needed once in ages. So far we offer double for less with the whole remaining balance which IMHO covers most cases. Insurance for less is actually already implemented, I will switch it on for the today's or next week's tournament, as soon as it is sufficiently tested. The problem with double/insurance for any given amount is that it requires quite some changes in the casino client, so as long as there are features which are more important, I prefer to postpone that.
Having the dealer flip his blackjack immediately actually does not give you any strategic difference, the outcome is exactly the same, only in case the dealer has a blackjack it seems to make the game go faster. Well, this is not the case - no matter if the dealer has a blackjack or not, we'd have to ask all players in turn if they want an insurance and only then they would be able to make their moves. If the dealer's upcard is an Ace, the probability that he's got a blackjack is less than 4/12, so in 2/3 rounds the game would be slowed down by an unnecessary insurance round and 1/3 would go slightly faster. I'm working on speeding up the pace of the game where players would be allowed to make their moves ahead, if the play is obvious, the move would of course be shown only when it's this player's turn. Once we have that, I will reconsider this extra insurance round because the overhead will be smaller.
Some other features that are frequently needed are buttons "Bet Max" to bet the table maximum or all remaining chips and "Bet Min" to bet the table minimum. I'm also working on automated play, e.g. when you are in round 7 of 15 and the door bell rings: currently you will be thrown out when you miss three consecutive rounds. Instead, you could press an "Away" button which tells the dealer that you will not play but you are still there, so he would play for you without waiting until you come back. Again, this seems to me a quite important feature to have. If it is not the case, I'll be happy to hear what you people consider important for a better game. (UBT style perhaps?)
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
I still think these are key items
Hello Micha,
I understand there are lots of things you want to improve on, but when Joep made the comment about talking to Global-Player and the request falling on deaf ears these were the items he was referring too.
Every since I can remember the DD, surrender, & insurance for less has been the biggest issues of all at Global-Player for the land based tournament players. You did add the surrender option after we asked.
The dealer flipping their BJ request was for when they have a 10 value card up, so asking for insurance would not come in to play and there fore speed up the game.
The "New game button" is really not that big of a problem and can surly wait behind these other matters.
Now I do love the idea of having an "AUTO PLAY" button!
That would have come in to play just this passed Sunday during the Cruise tournament.
Ermgerm made the finals, but had to leave. With an Auto play button a player could hit it while taking care of a phone call, answering the door, restroom break, getting kicked off line, or in Ermgerms case having to leave without forfeiting the game and their money.
This feature would protect the players should something come up taking them away from the game. This is a very good idea, but this will still come up fewer times than the DD, surrender, and insurance for less feature.
From a tournament player standpoint these items are a must.
Your site is good for training the newer players, and these are VERY important features they need to learn before playing land base tournament. If they are not aware of these options and do not practice them then they are at a very Hugh disadvantage coming down to the end of a round against players with this knowledge
Global is the place to learn at $5 & $16 Sit and Go events before putting $300 to $1,500 entry fees into the land based tournaments, but they need to have all these option open to them to do so.
Maybe this is just my opinion, so to be fair I'll post a poll for the options players want most, and then you can correct them in the order of how important the players think they are.
I am not trying to be a smart-ass only trying to improve your site and give the players the best possible place to play, and by doing so hopefully increase your tournaments activity.
I know of at least two other sites that are working on adding all the land based features into their sites and I don't want Global-Player losing anyone to them by not offering the best player options to their players.
About the UBT format, I would stay clear of that at this time, I have heard there is some legal matters going on with their format. Unless you get UBT consent to use it first.
Hello Micha,
I understand there are lots of things you want to improve on, but when Joep made the comment about talking to Global-Player and the request falling on deaf ears these were the items he was referring too.
Every since I can remember the DD, surrender, & insurance for less has been the biggest issues of all at Global-Player for the land based tournament players.
You did add the surrender option after we asked.The dealer flipping their BJ request was for when they have a 10 value card up, so asking for insurance would not come in to play and there fore speed up the game.
The "New game button" is really not that big of a problem and can surly wait behind these other matters.
Now I do love the idea of having an "AUTO PLAY" button!
That would have come in to play just this passed Sunday during the Cruise tournament.
Ermgerm made the finals, but had to leave. With an Auto play button a player could hit it while taking care of a phone call, answering the door, restroom break, getting kicked off line, or in Ermgerms case having to leave without forfeiting the game and their money.
This feature would protect the players should something come up taking them away from the game. This is a very good idea, but this will still come up fewer times than the DD, surrender, and insurance for less feature.
From a tournament player standpoint these items are a must.
Your site is good for training the newer players, and these are VERY important features they need to learn before playing land base tournament. If they are not aware of these options and do not practice them then they are at a very Hugh disadvantage coming down to the end of a round against players with this knowledge
Global is the place to learn at $5 & $16 Sit and Go events before putting $300 to $1,500 entry fees into the land based tournaments, but they need to have all these option open to them to do so.
Maybe this is just my opinion, so to be fair I'll post a poll for the options players want most, and then you can correct them in the order of how important the players think they are.
I am not trying to be a smart-ass only trying to improve your site and give the players the best possible place to play, and by doing so hopefully increase your tournaments activity.
I know of at least two other sites that are working on adding all the land based features into their sites and I don't want Global-Player losing anyone to them by not offering the best player options to their players.
About the UBT format, I would stay clear of that at this time, I have heard there is some legal matters going on with their format. Unless you get UBT consent to use it first.
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TXtourplayer
Executive Member
What happened was...
Ermgerm had to leave, he was going to have someone else play the finals for him, but didn't have his pin number with him. So Pumi was helping him with a new pin and password and gave him the wrong info so he couldn't sign back in. :flame:
Pumi awarded him 5th place money anyway, Global-Player (Pumi) is very fair about that type of stuff.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Damn Ken, don't start giving me a hard time, I catch enough Shi- from Joep...LOL.
I'm thinking insurance, but calling it surrender...DUH! I did remove it from the post, Damn i'm going to catch hell over this...LOL
Ermgerm had to leave, he was going to have someone else play the finals for him, but didn't have his pin number with him. So Pumi was helping him with a new pin and password and gave him the wrong info so he couldn't sign back in. :flame:
Pumi awarded him 5th place money anyway, Global-Player (Pumi) is very fair about that type of stuff.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Damn Ken, don't start giving me a hard time, I catch enough Shi- from Joep...LOL.
I'm thinking insurance, but calling it surrender...DUH! I did remove it from the post, Damn i'm going to catch hell over this...LOL
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TXtourplayer said:Every since I can remember the DD, surrender, & insurance for less has been the biggest issues of all at Global-Player for the land based tournament players.
As a matter of fact, the surrender option has been available since 1999, you probably mean the text "SURRENDERED" to make it more obvious to other players, this has been added later.
The dealer flipping their BJ request was for when they have a 10 value card up, so asking for insurance would not come in to play and there fore speed up the game.
Ok, now I see what you mean (at last
), this is clear, I'll fix it asap.This was just an example - we might add something similar but sufficiently different to avoid legal problems.
casino_jim
Member
Micha,
It seems the most accurate point system would be based on money won less money spent to enter. ...plain and simple with some sort of qualifying number of tourney's played to qualify. There is no reason to give someone any benefit for finishing third...it's the same as fifth. The only problem is if you have one 50+3 winner with enough 15+1 rounds to qualify, but that hasn't been a problem so far, and even if it was a problem, it is still better than what we have now. Like Walt said, let the net money talk.
By the way, here's my wish list for bj tourney's.
1- Away button. Bets would be automatic and so would a loss, until returning. The bet would be a minimum bet for 10 hands, then you are out.
2- Make the betting limits $5 to $500 with a $1000 bankroll.
3- Make it easier to know what hand is in play when you split and resplit.
4- Make bet early (it would actually be played in order, but a player could do it early).
5- No new game button, just start the next hand.
6- Double for less.
7- Insurance for less.
8- Keep it at 15 hands.
9- Show dealer BJ's with a 10 up immediatly.
10-Make the whole playing area bigger (full screen?)
11-Create chat within the game and allow other players to chat who are watching. (like poker rooms)
I realize you can't do all of this, Micha, and I personally think Global does a good job, overall. But since I'm wishing, I thought I would bring it up.
jimmy_h on Global
It seems the most accurate point system would be based on money won less money spent to enter. ...plain and simple with some sort of qualifying number of tourney's played to qualify. There is no reason to give someone any benefit for finishing third...it's the same as fifth. The only problem is if you have one 50+3 winner with enough 15+1 rounds to qualify, but that hasn't been a problem so far, and even if it was a problem, it is still better than what we have now. Like Walt said, let the net money talk.
By the way, here's my wish list for bj tourney's.
1- Away button. Bets would be automatic and so would a loss, until returning. The bet would be a minimum bet for 10 hands, then you are out.
2- Make the betting limits $5 to $500 with a $1000 bankroll.
3- Make it easier to know what hand is in play when you split and resplit.
4- Make bet early (it would actually be played in order, but a player could do it early).
5- No new game button, just start the next hand.
6- Double for less.
7- Insurance for less.
8- Keep it at 15 hands.
9- Show dealer BJ's with a 10 up immediatly.
10-Make the whole playing area bigger (full screen?)
11-Create chat within the game and allow other players to chat who are watching. (like poker rooms)
I realize you can't do all of this, Micha, and I personally think Global does a good job, overall. But since I'm wishing, I thought I would bring it up.
jimmy_h on Global
TXtourplayer
Executive Member
Some changes on the way.
Nice post Jimmy, Global won't know what needs changed if they the players don't post here so we can tell them.
1. The auto button, for playing when you get kick off line or have to be away from the computor. This feature is being worked on now Micha said in an earlier post.
2. I think most wouldn't want 100 times spread.
3. I do like this idea, not sure what they could do (maybe showing the current hand in front).
4. Yes this is a great idea for speeding up the games. This option has been brought up.
5. I think all agree with losing the "New Start" button. This option has been discussed also.
6. I'll pushing for both 6 & 7 as you may have seen in earlier posts.
7. Read #6.
8. I agree 15 hands seem to work.
9. Micha just post he will chage this option ASAP!
10. Not sure how this could be done?
11. I actually size my screen so I can have the game (table) on the bottom and the chat on the top of the screen.
Nice post Jimmy, Global won't know what needs changed if they the players don't post here so we can tell them.
1. The auto button, for playing when you get kick off line or have to be away from the computor. This feature is being worked on now Micha said in an earlier post.
2. I think most wouldn't want 100 times spread.
3. I do like this idea, not sure what they could do (maybe showing the current hand in front).
4. Yes this is a great idea for speeding up the games. This option has been brought up.
5. I think all agree with losing the "New Start" button. This option has been discussed also.
6. I'll pushing for both 6 & 7 as you may have seen in earlier posts.
7. Read #6.
8. I agree 15 hands seem to work.
9. Micha just post he will chage this option ASAP!
10. Not sure how this could be done?
11. I actually size my screen so I can have the game (table) on the bottom and the chat on the top of the screen.