Here we go again!

WOW - did I touch a nerve or what?

Whining? ok, guilty as charged.

There was a LOT of scarcasm in my post.

I stated earlier - August I believe that I lean Libitarian meaning the less government the better.

I don't believe in majority rules for personal reasons and as a student of history our founding fathers in the US didn't want mob rule either.

Unfortunately the US is being morphed/transformed into something else.

But for the sake of toolman - I'll stop.

Rookie, I used to share some of your patrotic views of the US but I have since learned that they are too simplistic. Noble and ideal but simplistic.

The problem is simply this - how can this UIGEA be overturned (which I doubt) or how can it be circumvented for the purposes of getting my $ into and out of online TBJ site(s)?
 
fgk42 said:
I don't believe in majority rules for personal reasons ...
Click to expand...
:eek: :yikes: :eek: Humm. Do you ....? Can you ....? What the ....? I don't know what to say. I'll be away from this site for a while - several days, a week, 2 weeks who knows. Maybe this issue will be settled by then. This thread is shot anyway. In any case, non-democracy believers are still able to play at BJ tournaments. Is this a great country or what!!!
 
toolman1 said:
:eek: :yikes: :eek: Humm. Do you ....? Can you ....? What the ....? I don't know what to say. I'll be away from this site for a while - several days, a week, 2 weeks who knows. Maybe this issue will be settled by then. This thread is shot anyway. In any case, non-democracy believers are still able to play at BJ tournaments. Is this a great country or what!!!
Click to expand...
Let me clarify my statement, “I do not believe in majority rules”.

One. My comments were related to a federal/national government ONLY. State, local, city, etc. is a totally different matter. My comments were due to my frustration with the current state of affairs which, I believe, stem from the top – i.e., federal level. All other points or clarification MUST be taken with this in mind.

Two. Our electoral system includes the electoral college which gives equal weight to different parts of the country and ensures that “majority rules” can’t take effect when electing a president. This proved itself in the 2000 election when one candidate won the popular vote (i.e. majority) but lost the electoral college.

Three. Society is much too busy and preoccupied today with mundane tasks to concentrate and evaluate officials to the level that it deserves. The American federal electoral process takes too long, is too nasty, involves too much money, etc.

Majority rules – this can, not always, but can result in a mob mentality. All too often it “pits” one group against another and in certain instances can “create” strife and unrest. In addition under a majority rules system any dissention or “minority” thought/belief is usually trampled. Individual thoughts and rights “can” be hindered and in intolerant environments persecuted.

The opposite is a dictatorship in which one person has absolute power to decide. Their will is imposed on the people over whom they rule and conformism results.

Both are bad, in my humble opinion.

Do the United States have problems? Yes. Is it still a great place to live? In my opinion yes. Do I whine too much about some of these problems? I try not to but out of frustration yes.

POST: 1,000!

On another note: Will you be in Vegas for the WSOB satellite? :confused:
 
Last edited:
U.S. said to seek online gambling data from banks

For those not inclined to click on the link...

From Reuters said:
January 22, 2007

LONDON — The U.S. Justice Department has demanded information from some of the world's biggest investment banks as part of a probe into online gambling in the United States, banking sources said Sunday.

Internet gaming was effectively banned last year after President Bush signed legislation outlawing gaming-related financial transactions at the end of September.

Half truth here. The bill was hidden in the Port Security Act. Secondly it was preliminary and the final guidlines were to be announced later with final implementation 120 days after.
The sources said the Department of Justice had issued requests for information through the Southern District Court of New York and had ordered the banks to hand over all e-mails, telephone records and documents connected with Internet gaming firms such as 888 Holdings and Partygaming.

888 and Partygaming were not immediately available for comment.

European gambling companies have been accepting business from the U.S. for many years, arguing that until last November U.S. law was ambiguous and made no reference to the Internet.

The Sunday Times and Sunday Telegraph newspapers earlier reported that the U.S. had sought the information from 16 banks, including HSBC, Dresdner Kleinwort, Credit Suisse and Deutsche Bank, as well as accountants and law firms.

The reports said the subpoenas were issued three weeks ago as part of the Justice Department's ongoing investigation.
Click to expand...

This REALLY frosts my cake :flame:

I can understand if it would involved drug dealing but to single out online gambling when land-based, B & M gambling is STILL LEGAL, is just outragious!

This smacks of political posturing and since these financial institutions are not US based I HOPE they stand up to the bullying of the US Government and tell Uncle Sam to kiss their ...........:mad:
 
Last edited:
Power Play

It should be interesting to see how this all plays out. The leverage the government has over these foreign banks is to restrict their U.S. operations if they don't comply with this demand. It could backfire if the countries involved protest this as a free trade or even a sovreignty issue.

It's amazing the lengths the politicians will go to to protect their sponsors, i. e. Harrahs.

For an explanation of govt behavior, follow the money. In this case the govt is trying to crush the foreign operators, not just drive them out of this market. It's coming just a few short weeks after Harry Reid has gained some real power.

Watch for the U.S. operators to be given the go ahead to offer online gaming - surprisingly soon. It's the American way.
 
Last edited:
FREEDOM-Nothin left to lose.

There's a difference between FREEDOM with responsibility and ANARCHY.

Majority Rule with limited protected minorty rights(definitions needed.)

While the one great MYTH of the US hides the fact that the moneyed, the wealthy, the Barons, generally get their way(ultimately for the overall "good" of the country) the one "thing" the power mongers have learned here is to throw enough scraps at the unconcerned, the ignorant, or the pretenders and believers of the higher ideal to make them believe that they really make a difference.

Instead of being Aristocratic, Feudal, or Totalatarian, enough "compromise" is given to the squeaky wheels to passify them into complacency.

All in all, not a bad gig for those on both ends of the spectrum. Let the really powerful and monied have what they have. I got my 106 inch plasma TV, my two and a half cars, my fancy house in the burbs, my nice dinners, etc, etc. Why do I want to be a Donald Trump, pretending to be a big player when everytime I make a move to get bigger, I get Trumped. Shiite, even by Merv Griffin of all people. Go along, get along, live a happy life.

Yet, every once in a while with nothin left to lose, comes a tipping point, that's quickly pacified. The Indians. The American Labor Movement. The illumination of overreaching, by the Muckrakers, The Civil Rights Movement.

Heck. There's still places,( not necessarily good)to scratch the gambling itch. Can't be all that bad, huh? Except an AP can now only turn and ply the Advantage on the unsuspecting, much as the "Bosses."
 
So they tipped the gambling point and it fell in the lap of the Native American...

So why cant the NA's run the online gambling? They are on exempt land after all.

I guess reality is that the huge amount of dollars available in the online gaming has been duly noted...and its just as apparent that US govt is not about to remain in blinders while this money slips offshore to God knows who..or is it whom?

In the end I doubt the Dems will act any differently to this issue....its not about morality...its about money.

I have zero facts....but I bet these offshore gaming companies that USA is pressuring out are actually owned by citizens of good ole USA in one form or another....

At least some of them are...there are rumors that this recent law has made huge sums for some very familar names...all US citizens living right here in good ole USA....30 million here, 30 million there...110 million there.

Now it just becomes a matter of staying liquid while the deatils of legal online gambling (errr gaming) are ironed out.

Ok US gov....we understand that you want to tax and grab your fair share and we also understand that these off shore companies have not been playing the game by your rules.

No payee...no playeee.

Stop fussing (I need to be careful Im on warning;-)} around and get your hand in the till so that our game can continue to grow.

There ...that honest enough ?

Land of the free is largely a myth....we do have a Constitution and amendments that are second to none.

Ocasionally administrations step outside the bounds of those articles ... and ignore or misinterpert those rules that they swore to uphold....

The big free part is that I am free to yell foul from every mountain top...I can protest, form groups, I can even run for office...I can get petitions, call my Senators office...my House Reps....demand hearings...and finally I can vote the bums out and vote a new bum (who agrees with me) in....

I can do all that w/o fear because I have a right to free speach...free press....heck I can even carry a gun ...hidden and loaded in my back pocket (concealed firearms permit issued by sherriff in PA) if I want...

Is that enough freedom to be considered the land of the free???

I dont know.
 
You are right

Monkeysystem said:
For an explanation of govt behavior, follow the money. In this case the govt is trying to crush the foreign operators, not just drive them out of this market. It's coming just a few short weeks after Harry Reid has gained some real power.

Watch for the U.S. operators to be given the go ahead to offer online gaming - surprisingly soon. It's the American way.
Click to expand...

Never a truer word said Monkeysystem.

The legislation was always about money and not morality.

Previous posts on here show how the USA casinos and financial institutions are re-positioning themselves in the market for when the law is overturned.

As soon as the USA has crushed all the competition they will be back in the loop and have their own control on Internet gaming.

It is not the land of the fair is it?

Andy
 
globalisation

I can understand why the US government would want to rebalance the global internet gambling business but to attempt to totally crush it before rebuilding it in its favour seems very cynical to say the least. I'm being polite but I am very angry about it all :flame:

Cheers

Reachy
 
majority rule

de Toqueville - back in the early 1830s - warned that America's downfall would be the 'tyranny of the majority' - as our system of government allowed a bare majority to impose any form of oppression on a minority they chose to -

our founding fathers never intended a popular democracy - they intended rule by a moneyed elite - as opposed to a herititary aristocracy - and emphasized protection of minority rights - we still have rule by a moneyed elite - we are losing our protection of minority rights to the tyranny of the majority - just as de Toqueville warned -
 
RKuczek said:
de Toqueville - back in the early 1830s - warned that America's downfall would be the 'tyranny of the majority' - as our system of government allowed a bare majority to impose any form of oppression on a minority they chose to -

our founding fathers never intended a popular democracy - they intended rule by a moneyed elite - as opposed to a herititary aristocracy - and emphasized protection of minority rights - we still have rule by a moneyed elite - we are losing our protection of minority rights to the tyranny of the majority - just as de Toqueville warned -
Click to expand...

Thank you for that RKuczek. NOW maybe people will think that I'm NOT crazy! :rolleyes:
 
Reachy said:
I can understand why the US government would want to rebalance the global internet gambling business but to attempt to totally crush it before rebuilding it in its favour seems very cynical to say the least. I'm being polite but I am very angry about it all

Cheers

Reachy
Click to expand...

YOU'RE ANGRY? You're cleaning up over at Global and Golden Palace where we can't even play!

THINK ABOUT HOW WE HERE IN THE US FEEL! :flame: :flame:

AND TO THINK THAT WE PAY THESE IDIOTS! :flame: :flame:
 
RKuczek said:
de Toqueville - back in the early 1830s - warned that America's downfall would be the 'tyranny of the majority' - as our system of government allowed a bare majority to impose any form of oppression on a minority they chose to -

our founding fathers never intended a popular democracy - they intended rule by a moneyed elite - as opposed to a herititary aristocracy - and emphasized protection of minority rights - we still have rule by a moneyed elite - we are losing our protection of minority rights to the tyranny of the majority - just as de Toqueville warned -
Click to expand...

This comment is absolutely spot-on. Thanks for that, RK.

The bottom line is, America was founded as a republic that was designed specifically to PROTECT the minority FROM the majority... NOT a place where 'majority rules.' Otherwise issues such as racism, sexism, classism and the like would never had been resolved (not that they are completely fixed, however, but certainly much better than they were 50-100-150 years ago). It is what still drives minority groups, whether religious, sexual, or ethnic, to be able to stand tall and say that as Americans they have the same rights, freedoms, and protections as the majority who may not/does not believe what they believe. And it is the government's job to ultimately make sure these pursuits are all protected, NOT to pass laws restricting these minority groups.

If online gambling really does 'hurt families' as the gov't claims, then there are a myriad of other solutions to protect one's family -- IP blocking software, stringent age verification requirements on sites, etc etc -- that could be mandated or put in place BEFORE a complete ban is put into effect. The fact that this did not happen -- while other forms of state-sponsored gambling (and brick and mortar establishments) are magically exempt from these moral imperatives is only another lie and slap in the face from a completely corrupt, dishonest and irresponsible administration that has more than outstayed its welcome. but yet all we get are more lies and favors/awards being given to those most responsible for the current situation. if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... then watch out or Dick Cheney will shoot it in the face!

-hd.
 
Here We Go. again and again and....

Well, add click2pay to the scrap heap. Had been advised they were a good alternative to the bets and ubt sites. Overcoming fear of money getting lost or held up in cyberspace and wanting to take advantage of the overlays in bet21 and ubt 50 100. I today tried to register with click. But, alas, the clack got to them to and regretably they can not in light of current legislation, entertain US playas.


I say Sam the Sham and the Pharos hitch up the chariot and take the games on the road to every open sage field and fallow corn field in the US and we all meet at midnight under a burning effigy of the majority's choice plop the money in the middle, bring your gun and knife, (just in case) and fight it out.
 
We can't play either

fgk42 said:
YOU'RE ANGRY? You're cleaning up over at Global and Golden Palace where we can't even play!

THINK ABOUT HOW WE HERE IN THE US FEEL! :flame: :flame:

AND TO THINK THAT WE PAY THESE IDIOTS! :flame: :flame:
Click to expand...

We have no more Global Wednesday tournaments.

Received an Email from Global a few days ago that informed us that all Gamemaster tournaments have now been cancelled through lack of participation.

Andy
 
Last edited:
I am in the embarrassing position

of being in complete agreement with Hollywood and fgk42:eek:

very good and intelligent posts guys -

saw a very scary documentary on Patrick Henry University the other night - on one of the cable channels - it is a militant Christian school - that seeks out home schooled Christian youth (the families won't put their kids in the evil public schools where they might be afflicted with evolution and other satanic thought) - and gives them a bible based education in political activism - then the kids intern with congress and the White House - etc. - evidently graduates from this school are very much in demand as staffers in both the Bush White House and Congressional offices -

the school openly states that they are 'training the new army of God' for the purpose of imposing Christian morallity on America - that's their concept of Christian morallity, of course

de Touqueville also warned that one path to corrupting the American system was turning elections into popularity contests - where whatever demogauge can best parrot back to the mindless masses their prejudices and biases - would get into office - then implement laws based on mass prejudice, rather than rational thought and humane principles -

de Toqueville was a genius - unfortunately
 
BJFAN4 said:
UPDATED -- NETeller founders charged with money laundering
16 January 2007.
http://casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=163572
NETeller founders Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre were arrested Monday are being charged with laundering billions of dollars of Internet gambling proceeds, U.S. Attorney Michael Garcia announced today.

"Stephen Eric Lawrence and JOHN DAVID Lefebvre knew when they took their company public that its activities, as well as those of the internet gambling companies it assisted, were illegal in the United States," Garcia said. "Blatant violations of U.S. law are not a mere 'risk' to be disclosed to prospective investors. Criminal prosecutions related to online gambling will be pursued even in cases where assets and defendants are positioned outside of the United States."


NETeller is a popular third-party payment processor used by many to transfer money into online gaming accounts. The Isle of Man-based company processes more than $7 billion in financial transactions annually according to the company's interim report for 2006.
Click to expand...

Moments after reading this article on Jan. 16th, I withdrew the remainder of my funds from neteler. That was 14 days ago and the transaction is still pending.
 
About that same time I sent for a withdrawl from UB/Bet 21.....after a pending withdrawl delay of several days they claimed to have sent a check....still waiting though.

I didnt have any money traped in Netteller...although the week before that I had to call them because they were holding money for outstanding checks they said........checked with my bank ....payments were cleared 5 days b4...called again...."well its the holidays they said...finally the next day they honored my withdrawl request....

I have heard that money in transition has been placed in special acount....but that is rumor only.
 
MyCitadel Wallet still available?

Citadel Commerce's e-checks are no longer available - but their web site says that MyCitadel Wallet transactions are still available to US customers - but can not be used to ORIGINATE deposits to an online gambling site - their message indicates that they can still be used for WITHDRAWALS from such sites - setting up a MyCitadel Wallet account may let you get your money out anyway -
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top