Not A Good Sign

J

Joep

Active Member
The Imperial Palace Tournament that was scheduled for this weekend has been canceled.They only had about 35 sign ups as of Monday and with this being Easter weekend the outlook for a big last minute rush was dim.

Is the lack of interest in Casino run tournaments starting to show?.I sure hope not.

Keep in mind this was a tournament with a $300 entry fee with no cost to the player for registering, 100% of the entry fees were returned, all 52 cards of the deck were dealt out and they held a sit down dinner on Saturday night.You cant ask for better than that.

If the players will not support a tournament like this can you expect them to support other tournaments in this price range that have an added cost to them? This is a sad day for tournaments.


Joep
 
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This is not good...

I am hoping this is not because of the internet and the online games. I have talked to many players and I have been hearing that with the money they lost playing online they couldn't afford to go play some land based casino events. This has be something I've heard back a couple of years ago during the Global-Player tournaments among others.

Of course another problem is the casinos don't market their tournaments the way they use to. Just take the TBJPA events I have scheduled for May in Laughlin. If I just offered one tournament I'd be lucky to get 50-75 players, but by offering 3 events and one full day of satellite events I am thinking we'll have about double that amount.

These casinos need to spice up their tournaments somehow to bring in the players. Adding large amounts of money to tournaments by the casinos is a thing of the past, (except for the VIP events).

Hopefully the IP will continue to offer their BJ tournaments their event will always one of the most popular tournaments in Las Vegas.
 
I've never played at Imperial Palace LV before but I was wondering why their BJ tournament had such a bad showing. I suppose it could be a holiday weekend, conflicting schedules, other tournaments coming up, don't like the place, don't like the rules, on-line loses, prefer playing naked at home on-line, or anything else. For whatever the reason, in the interest of knowing what went wrong, I'd like those who have played the IP tournaments to answer this question:

What is your personal opinion as to why the IP had such a dismal showing for this weekend's BJ tournament?​
 
I've play it before, but

Like I said above, I think it is because they didn't schedule it around other BJ tournaments. The few times I played the IP was when it was back up to either the Stardust, New Froniter, Riviera, Harrah's, Rio or some other tournaments.

The few players I know who signed up for this IP event were only there because of the Las Vegas Hiltons dice tournament starting tomorrow.
 
Never Assume

I assumed they would get a good turn out even though it was a holiday weekend. I've played their tournaments a few times and they always get a great turn out. If I would have known not many people had signed up I definately would have signed up and maybe a few others would have too. That's what I get for assuming.

If my memory serves me right when I've played in the past the first few rounds were double deck dealt to the bottom and the later rounds were single deck dealt to the bottom. Very fun tourney. Bummer.

I don't have a good answer for you Toolman. Maybe Ricks right about not much happening around it though you have Palms on Thurday and Venetian sit n' go's on Friday night to keep you busy before the weekend tourney.
 
IP cancellation

I arrived in Vegas planning to piggyback the IP tournament with the Hilton Craps Tournament, that I'm playing earlier in the week. When I arrived in town, I got a call from TX letting me know that the IP had been cancelled. I checked my home messages and had a recording stating that the tournament had, indeed, been canceled, and that I would receive a refund and comped rooms.

With regard to the reason for the poor showing, the local wisdom is that the prize pool had been reduced (in half, I believe), which made the EV substantially less. Other reasons probably contributed to the cancellation, such as some of those suggested above. I'll post more on this later, if I get additional information.
 
Drbass said:
With regard to the reason for the poor showing, the local wisdom is that the prize pool had been reduced (in half, I believe), which made the EV substantially less.
Click to expand...


Dr Bass the prize pool was not cut in half,they reduced the number of players to reach their goal for a 15,000 first prize payout.The EV is never effected if 100% of the entry fees are returned, and this is one of the only tournaments that not only returns 100% but also provides the players with food on both Friday and Saturday nights,with finger foods on Saturday during the first round and re-buys.The staff at the IP has always been good to the tournament players and it really a shame that we didn't support this event.


Joep
 
It must be global warming:

One of the few remaining, "show your skill tournaments" the IP, had to cancel!
Well shimmer me timbers and blow me down. Maybe it was timming. Though, there goes the idea that if you offer a "good deal" people will come. If it's not global warming then everyone who ever went before lost all their money on UBT or Bet21 on line and didn't have a stake to play. Talk about a "good deal" from rooms to side benefits to prize pool and competition. I'd guess Boulder station and the other local spots sucked off the locals. Sorry, Theresa.
 
EV definition

Joe, I understand your point. However, EV has more than one potential definition. If there were no other expenses to attend the tournament, than drive down the road, pay the money and play - your definition would be accurate. However, if you travel 2500 miles, and have related travel expenss before starting to play - it cuts into potential profit or return on investment. This makes tournaments with lower prize pots less attractive for some players - even if the casino puts back all entry fees.

What word(s) would you use, instead of EV, to describe the risk vs reward issue for those who have to put up subtantial funds to play (primary due to travel), in addition to entry fees?
 
my .25 - inflation adjusted

Well what do you expect?

Here’s my take on the IP cancellation – bad timing.

In the month of April there are several BJT with two (2) of the big money tournaments being played at the same time: UBT and Tunica Horseshoe.

If these tournament directors want to have successful events they need to be cognizant of when other tournaments have them scheduled.

Now as for there not being enough local players to support that tournament that is a shame, a crying shame and disgrace.

There are players, such as myself and others who must travel over 1,000 miles to play in tournaments, who have demonstrated and proved the adage of “if you hold it we will come”. This was true at the Niagara Falls event and I’m sure it will be true of the Tunica Horseshoe event.

But the carrot has to justify the time and expense involved. With the IP event the prize pool wasn’t large enough to justify those people who had to fly cross county, pay for a car rental, hotel, food, etc. It needs to be piggybacked or combined with more than one event to make it worthwhile.

I mean come on 325 entry fee for a 35,000 prize pool? Compared to the other tournaments out there it just doesn’t jive.

The Blackjack Masters Tourney in Quebec on April 16 – 500 entry fee for a 63,000 prize pool

The Horseshoe Tunica on April 20 entry fee of 1000 for a prize pool of 250,000.

There are just better deals for those traveling and with expenses.

Now for those who live within 2-4 hours drive – what was your excuse for not playing? The cost involved? The time? I don’t know. Most likely due to the holiday timing and people being with family/relatives, etc.

It is for those very same reasons that the cruise I had mentioned earlier, thanksgiving week, is so inexpensive. It’s a steal. But people won’t go due to the timing.
 
Addendum regarding the IP cancellation

I was contacted by Joanne Bacon, representative from IP, about the IP tournament cancellation. She was very apologetic and courteous. In addition to comping the rooms and refunding the entry fee, the IP is offering some meal comps in partial compensation for the hassle. I appreciated their attempt to make the best of a bad situaton.
 
Here is the difference Dr Bass and to anyone else that was wondering

If the IP lowered the amount of players the tournament does not lose any EV.The EV remains the same at $325 per player or $391.66 once you add in the rebuys, these figures are based upon 120 players with 80 rebuys available 47,000 prize pool

Now if the player requirements are lowered to 96 players creating a 31,200 prize pool the EV is still the same $325 per player and with rebuys it still comes to $391.66.Thats with
64 rebuys available.

What the player gains with the lower entries allowed is a somewhat easier format

With 120 Players
1st Round 20 tables of 6 with 2 advancing 33% = 40 players advanced
Rebuys 80 will consist of 16 tables of 5 with 2 advancing 40% = 32 player advancing
Round 2 starts with 72 players
Round 2 tables 12 tables of 6 with 2 advancing 33% =24 players to the semi finals

Semi Finals 6 tables of 4 with only 1 advancing to the Finals 25 %

Now let’s look at a format with 96 players

1st round 16 tables of 6 with 2 advancing 33% = 32 players advanced
Rebuys 64 will consist of 11 tables of 5 or 6 players with 2 advancing =36.5% when combing both numbers =22 players advancing
Round 2 starts with 54 players
Round 2 tables 9 tables of 6 with 2 advancing 33% = 18 players advanced

Semi Finals 3 tables of 6 with 2 advancing to the Finals 33%

The smaller format loses approx 3.5% for the rebuy round but gains 8% in the semi final round which is a better deal for the player, especially if you are one of the players that didn’t need a rebuy

I hope this helps in your understanding that the value of the tournament does not decrease at all and the format actually favors the players.

One other note concerning expenses if you were to win the tournament and collect 15,000 instead of 20,000 I still believe all you expenses would be covered. and still realize a nice profit if you lost you still would have incurred the same cost $325 but a easier format and less players to beat to get to the finals




Joep
 
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Maybe its poor marketing??

$300 to $400 dollars with some nice comps ....

And I bet there are 500 players within a stones throw that are throwing down that much every hand in a lousy regular BJ game...go figure...
 
Thanks

Joep,

Thanks for the explaination of that - nicely done.

Now for the BIG question - did you register for the IP tourney :confused:
 
Guilty As Charged

I'm sad to say that I was part of the problem, as I had all intentions to register on Friday afternoon just like I have done at every IP event in the past.There was never any attendance problem before this weekends event and this came as a complete shock to me as to many others.

I'm sure if I did register early the tournament would still have been canceled but I should have known better :joker: .Joep's BAD


Joep
 
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Despondent

You couldn't ask for better rules and casino treatment.
Not only was all entry fees included in the prize pool but on occasion,
the Casino added to the prize pool which created an overlay.

This was a tournament which attracted highly skilled players from all over
the country.

I can't imagine why the attendance was so low.
 
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