Open letter to Golden Nugget Las Vegas

A

askdick

Member
To the Management of Golden Nugget:

I had the privilege of competing in the Nugget's latest blackjact tournament on January 3rd & 4th. I and many other local players have some concerns about how this tournament was run. This was a $100.00 buyin event with rebuys permitted. Each time I entered, I was given an entry and if I did not advance, I was put in the "wild card" drawing pool. This seems fair to me, however, some of your "special" players were given several chances of playing in the tournament with out paying. I was not given the opportunity to play 3 first rounds, 2 buy in rounds for FREE and receive FIVE entries in the bucket for wild card drawings.

Many people traveled to play this tournament. I have played all the Golden Nugget tournaments for the last year, If this is the way the tournaments will be contucted, I for one will not be participating. If you are going to give your "special" patrons "unlimited" free entries, I am limited to the number of spots at the final table. All I am asking for is a fair shot at the prize fund. The "not so special" patrons were not given a fair shot at this tournament.

This is 1 man's opinion shared by MANY local Las Vegas players. You will need to do a better job if you wish to keep our local support.
 
I was there but didn't notice all that skullduggery going on. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I didn't notice it. :p

The only thing that frustrated me was that all tables were one-advance, when the previous GN BJT was all two-advance except for the semifinals. Caught me by surprise and caused a fair amount of disappointment since one-advance ramps up the luckbox factor significantly.
 
Open letter to Golden Nugget

Leftnut...

All of GN's tourneys are 1 advance in round 1's, except the biggies (500 buyin)
I have played in at least 8 tourneys there.

Because of the situation where the "whales" were treated like "kings", GN has been reported to gaming and an investigation is in progress. I have talked with the officer in charge of the complaint and she stated about 3 weeks to resolve. The sad part is it will not be made public. I am told a slap on the wrist and do not do it again, but they will!!!

I have requested that all non-invited players receive a free entry to their next event. I know of at least 50 players that will not be attending GN/Vegas until they clean up their act. I am just one of them...

You need more than luck to compete in a tournament where the chosen few can enter free, can bet the limit and play 5 times if they do not make it while you can only play 2 times. If they do not make it then they have 5 wild card chances but you have only 2!!! It does sound a bit lopsided... I am surprised that more players are not voicing any opinions, except the locals. The view is I do not want to complain because they will not host the event if they can not run it the way they want to...but I say if you have very little chance, who cares???

Just 1 man's opinion.
 
Same old story...

This is nothing new, casinos have been hosting events like this for years.

Is it fair maybe yes, maybe no. For paying customers it sure seems unfair, but to the casino they don't mind opening up these events, but they ARE going to cater to their higher rollers, that is just the fact's of life and good business.

What you need to be concerned with is that at least the Golden Nugget is willing to host these open events where so many of the smaller players have a chance to play in a bigger tournament.

I do understand your point of view, but your only real choices are play the way there are or don't play in them. Turning them in to gaming control is only going to piss them off and possibly have them stop offering the open events and go back to VIP invite events again, cutting yet more of the open events we once had so often.
 
Ev

The EV of this tournament should be the main concern for the paying player. If the tournament offers positive EV you should play it even if their treatment of their favorite players seems unfair to you.

What was the EV of this tournament to an average player?
 
TXtourplayer said:
I do understand your point of view, but your only real choices are play the way there are or don't play in them. Turning them in to gaming control is only going to piss them off and possibly have them stop offering the open events and go back to VIP invite events again, cutting yet more of the open events we once had so often.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with TX 100% on this. Over the years tournaments in general, except poker, have become a PERK for those who have proved their worth to the casino. That is why invite only tournaments in Las Vegas outnumber the open tournaments by a huge proportion. Any given casino only runs tournaments if they can make money by doing so. With invite tournaments they do not make the money directly from the tournament but rather indirectly by keeping their higher rollers happy with another perk which in turns keeps them coming back. So if a casino hosts a invite/open tournament and they get a lot of static from the "open players" because the "open players" don't like the favoritism then the casino will figure "why bother, we're not making any money from these players anyway - it's invite only from now on".

So the bottom line is this. If you like the EV and you feel you can cash in the tournament 5 to 10 times more often than the average player (even with the higher roller's minor perks), its best to keep a low profile and let the casino do what they are happy with. You are still maintaining a huge advantage over the average player. In the context of the original purpose of this thread, the only thing one is at a disadvantage is less chance for a wild-card. The actual playing rules do not change to the advantage of the higher roller so a seasoned played should still do very well over the long run. So play and keep the lips zipped. Well meaning players have been barred for voicing their opinions because they are perceived as "trouble makers" - do you want to be one of them?
 
Tx and Tool are making sense

I have played the Golden Nugget tournaments in both Las Vegas and Laughlin. These are nice tournaments, well run, affordable in the buy-ins, and offer a large prize pool for the buy-in money. I doubt if GN makes any money directly off any of their bj tournaments. GN will give casino rates to any tournament player, and one always has the option of staying elsewhere for even cheaper, as Laughlin casinos are pretty accessible to each other, and the downtown LV casinos very much so.

I, for one, appreciate the chance to play a $50,000 tourney for $100 entry, or a $20,000 for $50, and get a cheap room, too. In fact, I will be playing the upcoming GN Las Vegas tournament in February, and just played the January tournament in Laughlin, and will be back in Laughlin in March for the next one.

The reality of tournament blackjack is that it is a promotion, not a profit center, for the casino. They use bj tournaments to attract new players and to reward high rollers, not to make money. That is why almost all the larger tournaments are invites, not open. We will not get good open tournaments until tbj becomes much more popular, and the players are willing to accept raked tournaments, so that the casinos can make money directly from the bj tournaments, as they do with poker tourneys.

I never look at the odds/ev by the number of players, but by format. If I have to win three tables of six players each to get to the final, then the base odds are one of 216 (for each try) to reach the final, and I can calculate in my edge to figure my ev. I don't care if the other players are rebuys, freebie high rollers, wild cards, or chimpanzees, it doesn't affect the base odds for each try. I can understand that extra free rebuys for the high rollers can increase the number of players at each table in the later rounds, and may reduce the wild card odds, but this is probably a smaller impact on your ev then GN increasing the buy-in or reducing the prize pool.

While I would rather see no players receive favored treatment, and therefore smaller tables (by maybe one player?) in the second round and rebuy rounds, reality is, this is what we have and we need to live with it.
 
Tounaments should be fair

I do not mind them putting thier favorites in but only to the point that I have the same number of entry options. I do not believe Laughlin is run the same way as Las Vegas Nugget is run. The Laughlin tournament seems to be very fair and very good value.

If you accept the way Vegas is being run, you are probably one of the "chosen" players. If not then you are being taken advantaged of. Golden Nugget will loose 10,000 in entry fees in the upcoming February event plus any side action. That is significant even for them. If they can not run the tournament fair then gaming should shut them down.

I will not accept kissing their butt just so we can have an UNFAIR tournament to play in that favors a few chosen players.
 
I'm guessing that if forced to choose, the Nugget will likely just switch to an invitational only format. Lord knows everyone else has.
 
Money matters

askdick said:
I will not accept kissing their butt just so we can have an UNFAIR tournament to play in that favors a few chosen players.
Click to expand...

Askdick, I started the T.B.J.P.A. to offer the fairest tournaments for the players. Every player paid the same entry, had the same chances at re-buys, started with the same number of chips, same number of hands played, even tried to give them the schedule playing time they wanted for their first round.

However, I was unable to guarantee set prize money and had to base the prize pool from 100% of the entries and re-buys, (no positive EV, the T.B.J.P.A. charged $40 per player for the entire 3 to 5 day's series of tournaments to cover expenses for the 2 to 3 main tournaments and satellite events).

The tournaments were equal and fair for all that played. The T.B.J.P.A. hosted several of these events and had great reveiws from the majority of players that attended them. The problem was the most we ever had play was about 40 players for anyone event.

The point of this story is most players would prefer playing in a less then perfect tournament format but with a positive EV vs. a good format and rules event, but with a lower prize pool.

Monkeysystem pointed out above, a positive EV event is what most players will base playing in a tournament on. The format and rules matter, but the money matters more, just the bottomline.
 
Comments

I played the Golden Nugget Las Vegas in January 2008; did not see anything like you are talking about then, nor hear any comments about anything like that; maybe this is a brand new issue? and not something they had done before?

That tournament was run very much the same as their Laughlin ones.

As Rick says, the TBJPA tournaments were great as to format and the way they played and the whole set up - but very few people wanted to play a raked tourney. While we prattle on about 'skill' in tbj; very few players are actually willing to play tbj as a game of competitive skill; players want the odds tilted in their favor, or they won't play.
 
I, too, didn't notice anything shady going on at GN in the last two events other than the surprise of the one-advance format at the last one. That was my fault, should have asked one more question, I guess. And I wouldn't have noticed any tomfoolery with the wild-card drawings at the first one since I made the final table "clean" (no rebuys or wild cards). Thought they did a pretty darn good job. I certainly hope the GN doesn't change to invitation only. It's already next to impossible for us "little guys" to find a BJT that will let us play.

IMHO, Txtourplayer had the right idea with the TBJPA except that he needed a sponsor with deep pockets to underwrite guarantees until the ball got rolling. UIGEA pretty much screwed his best chances for that, as gambling websites would likely have been his best shot for finding such sponsorship.
 
Restate My Statement

I should've worded my previous post differently.

Of course if a tournament has positive EV for the average player you should play it. But a strong player should be able to overcome a 10% vig, depending on the format. If there are at least two rounds to advance through to get to the money, and two or three advance from each round (no one-advance tables), and there are a fair number of casual players or donks in the tournament, you should be able get positive EV.

I've played in a couple of TX's cruise tournaments and enjoyed them very much. They're a great value.
 
Not given up...

The T.B.J.P.A. did back off scheduling events after the low turnout at the Tropicana. Getting a Strip casino to host our events and still having such a poor turnout was disappointing.

Those involved with the T.B.J.P.A. decided to work on a restructuring plan to try and get more involvement from
the casinos to try and create more interest for the players. But before we could get anything started I had some medical and personal issues come up in 2008.

With luck I am hoping to get back on my feet later this year and try to get some more T.B.J.P.A. events scheduled later this year or in 2010.


 
Tournament MUST be fair

I am a capitalist, so I am for making a profit. We take risks for big reqards. I ran a bowling club with 1000's of dollars in guarantees in California. If your format was great but no guarantees, I would only play if it was local. If you add strong guarantees then people will travel.

If nothing comes out of the GN investigation then I will not partake in their idea of fairness. Enough said about this idea as it appears that many players are willing to play under those conditions. I will take the stand, that if more players knew what they were doing, less players would play and they can put it behind the closed doors for their special guests.

This is just one mans opinion...
 
Golden Nugget is listening

I just received a call from the Golden Nugget Las Vegas regarding the January tournament. They have taken my complaints plus MANY, MANY other local players and have decided to do the right thing. Without admitting any wrong doing and stating that their tournaments will ALWAYS be fair, they are inviting those players who played in the January tournament a comp entry into the February event. What about that EV!!!

He has asked me to spread the word so...just call Mr. Giannos at 702/682-6698 and you will be taken care of. We need to support the Nugget as they truly do have the best events and he has assurred me that there will be a better way to deal with their special players.
 
Well, well, well. Kudos to the Golden Nugget staff in their handling of this!
While I understand both sides of this battle, I am thrilled to see the GN take a proactive approach for their non-comped players.
 
Wow, that is some great news! I'll echo Ken's kudos to GN and add that not only are they Doing The Right Thing for their non-comped players, but the January tournament was $100 to enter, while February is $500. IMHO, mighty nice of them. Wish I could take advantage of it, would be the first comped entry I'd ever gotten, but it's looking like I will not be able to compete due to prior commitments at home. DAMN. :cry:
 
Entry Fee

LeftNut said:
Wow, that is some great news! I'll echo Ken's kudos to GN and add that not only are they Doing The Right Thing for their non-comped players, but the January tournament was $100 to enter, while February is $500. IMHO, mighty nice of them. Wish I could take advantage of it, would be the first comped entry I'd ever gotten, but it's looking like I will not be able to compete due to prior commitments at home. DAMN. :cry:
Click to expand...


I beleive that their FEB Blackjack event is/was only 100$ to enter. It is a 50K tournament in conjunction with a 50K Slot Tournament that also has a similar entry fee (if you are not given a free entry).

Feb 09 EVENT link:

https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/oldtourn/viewtourn.php?infoID=1479

Link to a prior 50K blackjack/50K slot event:

https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/oldtourn/viewtourn.php?infoID=1343

As I recall, this was a very crowded event in the past w/o the additional free entries.

Chips
 
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