Qualifying for Invitational Tournaments

gronbog

gronbog

Top Member
I am aware of many invitational tournaments for which the invitations are extended based on various criteria. Another recent thread touched on the subject (https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/threads/wrong-location.8656/) and I'm interested in exploring the subject further.

I've run across events for which the various criteria for an invitation were:
  • An actual loss, either for a trip or over some period of time
  • A theoretical loss based on play during a trip or over some period of time
  • A promise of theoretical loss based on play during the tournament
  • A referral to a host from another qualifying player
  • Discretion of your host based on any criteria he/she wants
I've also run across events for which they won't tell you the actual criteria and answer any questions about it with vague non-responses.

Now, I know that many here do receive invitations and I'm curious as to whether you actively pursue them or whether your level of play just happens to qualify you. If you do pursue them, I'm interested in which kinds of qualification criteria you pursue and what thresholds make them attractive or unattractive. Lastly I'm interested in any techniques you might use to meet the qualification criteria.

I know that some of this information will be considered sensitive, so please consider contacting me in private if necessary. Some here have helped me with these kinds of questions before (thank you!). I'm just interested in learning more.
 
gronbog said:
I am aware of many invitational tournaments for which the invitations are extended based on various criteria. Another recent thread touched on the subject (https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/threads/wrong-location.8656/) and I'm interested in exploring the subject further.

I've run across events for which the various criteria for an invitation were:
  • An actual loss, either for a trip or over some period of time
  • A theoretical loss based on play during a trip or over some period of time
  • A promise of theoretical loss based on play during the tournament
  • A referral to a host from another qualifying player
  • Discretion of your host based on any criteria he/she wants
I've also run across events for which they won't tell you the actual criteria and answer any questions about it with vague non-responses.

Now, I know that many here do receive invitations and I'm curious as to whether you actively pursue them or whether your level of play just happens to qualify you. If you do pursue them, I'm interested in which kinds of qualification criteria you pursue and what thresholds make them attractive or unattractive. Lastly I'm interested in any techniques you might use to meet the qualification criteria.

I know that some of this information will be considered sensitive, so please consider contacting me in private if necessary. Some here have helped me with these kinds of questions before (thank you!). I'm just interested in learning more.
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gronbog said:
I am aware of many invitational tournaments for which the invitations are extended based on various criteria. Another recent thread touched on the subject (https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/threads/wrong-location.8656/) and I'm interested in exploring the subject further.

I've run across events for which the various criteria for an invitation were:
  • An actual loss, either for a trip or over some period of time
  • A theoretical loss based on play during a trip or over some period of time
  • A promise of theoretical loss based on play during the tournament
  • A referral to a host from another qualifying player
  • Discretion of your host based on any criteria he/she wants
I've also run across events for which they won't tell you the actual criteria and answer any questions about it with vague non-responses.

Now, I know that many here do receive invitations and I'm curious as to whether you actively pursue them or whether your level of play just happens to qualify you. If you do pursue them, I'm interested in which kinds of qualification criteria you pursue and what thresholds make them attractive or unattractive. Lastly I'm interested in any techniques you might use to meet the qualification criteria.

I know that some of this information will be considered sensitive, so please consider contacting me in private if necessary. Some here have helped me with these kinds of questions before (thank you!). I'm just interested in learning more.
Click to expand...

There are invitationals with comped entry and others that require entry fee to be paid by the invited guest and the criteria can be quite different in these.
 
I guess I played in a total of 8 invitational tournaments in 2014. Four were full original entry fee comp invitations and 4 were entry paid by me invitations.
As has been typical for me for several years now, I mainly qualify by virtue of tons of video poker play at all of the various venues. However there are times when the vp offerings are so bad that I'll opt to play Blackjack instead. For reasons that I won't go into here, my preference for attaining invitations at tourney venues is playing video poker, though.
There are different ways of meeting the invitation criteria, of course. I didn't witness this but I was told that a regular tourney player (until disinvited) at the Stardust used to get on a craps table along with his wife/girlfriend and the two would make same size offsetting bets (one betting pass line, one betting don't pass?) to meet the action criteria for invitations. Some others feel that Pai Gow is a good way to get the "action" in because of the great amount of pushes in that game. Several others play roulette, baccarat and regular slots (hard to justify slots, I think)
Since casinos have started using "theos" it has become increasingly difficult for good players to get comps in general.
 
Thanks Billy C for sharing your insight. Would you care to comment on what level of action and what type of VP you think will get the invitations. For example, at Beau Rivage, they have a lot of invitational only tournaments but their VP is among the lowest pay in the area. I was debating whether it is worth it.
 
The_Professional said:
Thanks Billy C for sharing your insight. Would you care to comment on what level of action and what type of VP you think will get the invitations. For example, at Beau Rivage, they have a lot of invitational only tournaments but their VP is among the lowest pay in the area. I was debating whether it is worth it.
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Well, that is going to vary a lot with venue and tournament purse size, etc. Again, "theos" play a big part, too, because 9/6 JOB generates a much different theo than 7/5 JOB. Most of the casinos that I play tourneys at, only see me when there is a tourney, so I have to give gobs of play during the short time that I'm there.
Sounds like you're faced with a dilemma at BR. You can't justify playing 96-97% vp games just to get invitations because the EV/SV will diminish in a hurry. Do they offer a decent blackjack game?
 
The_Professional said:
Thanks Billy C for sharing your insight. Would you care to comment on what level of action and what type of VP you think will get the invitations. For example, at Beau Rivage, they have a lot of invitational only tournaments but their VP is among the lowest pay in the area. I was debating whether it is worth it.
Click to expand...
For Beau Rivage specifically, you can generate offers by VP, but you also need at least a little table play on your card to get the table event invites.
The best VP game there is 7/5 Bonus Poker Super Times Pay, available in 3/5/10 line 25c/50c/$1. The return is around 98.1% to 98.2% depending on denomination (which affect the MS taxes, not the base return).
I estimate $20K to $30K minimum coin-in per gaming day to generate invites to the $100K and $150K BJTs. So your cost is $400 to $600 per night in the hotel/gaming day.
If you are willing to generate the invites and then play less when attending the events, you could participate for a few months at a reasonable cost.
Especially given that your marketing mail will also be decent, probably around $400 per offer or so.
 
I get mine through my host. I let them know what interests me and if I feel I should be generating invites with my play and am not getting them I switch hosts. I don't alter my play to generate invites. I have found that getting a host to send you a quarterly list of upcoming events and trying to get on waiting lists for tournaments above your play grade works fairly well. By the week of the tournament they know that they need to lower the bar if the tournament is not full of whales as they had hoped. Of course these tournaments tend to be larger fields but I have managed to get into a couple small number of entrant tournaments with huge prize structures. Nobody pays entry fees into the invite only tournaments that I am aware of. They expect your play for the weekend to be sufficient. I get into almost a couple dozen invite only tournaments a year. I think they look at my average trip play theoretical loss. I can't think of anything else that would get me in. It certainly isn't my actual loss.
 
Chairman said:
I get mine through my host. I let them know what interests me and if I feel I should be generating invites with my play and am not getting them I switch hosts. I don't alter my play to generate invites. I have found that getting a host to send you a quarterly list of upcoming events and trying to get on waiting lists for tournaments above your play grade works fairly well. By the week of the tournament they know that they need to lower the bar if the tournament is not full of whales as they had hoped. Of course these tournaments tend to be larger fields but I have managed to get into a couple small number of entrant tournaments with huge prize structures. Nobody pays entry fees into the invite only tournaments that I am aware of. They expect your play for the weekend to be sufficient. I get into almost a couple dozen invite only tournaments a year. I think they look at my average trip play theoretical loss. I can't think of anything else that would get me in. It certainly isn't my actual loss.
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What kind of games do you play to generate the theoretical loss?
 
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I am paranoid about getting too specific online but mostly carny games. A little VP. Some Baccarat or Craps thrown in. If you are looking to mislead for comps Craps can be a great game. You don't need to actually have bets decided or have them in action all the time to get credit for making them as an average bet. Some wait for a shooter to throw a handful of rolls before betting others only risk bets for a set number of rolls on each shooter or between 7's. Some mild progressions in Baccarat can generate a lot of theo. If you lose a certain amount you are comfortable losing call it a day even if you haven't played long. If you don't you can play a long long time and may even have a nice profit for your trouble.

A variation of Oscars Grind or what I call the cancellation progression. My twist on the cancellation is I make up the numbers to keep the top bets from progressing as quickly as the normal approach. I might abandon a progression to cancel it out later. The idea is never to lose much and try to play long long stretches when things are working. Remember theo is about how much they give you credit for as your average bet and how long you play. They watch for a while (not long) and decide your average bet. They may change it later if they see bigger bets but that first impression is important. Always ask before leaving the table what your average bet was recorded at. Often you can get it raised if you think it is low.

I don't design comp grifting progressions or strategies to make money. That is for advantage play. I design it not to lose much money wit it usually taking some time to do so and take the wins when they come. Nothing like taking 2 hours to complete a progression that hardly wins a small amount but gets a big theo without chasing your bets with bets that are a lot larger than the original bets if you are looking to generate good comps. What you need is a game that will give you a good % on your total bet and a strategy that keeps the downside under control. Unlike advantage play, when comp grifting you seek out slower games and conditions. Often hosts expect a certain number of hours per day at a theo to get what you want. A crowded craps table with tons of prop bettors is really slow. Throwing the dice off the table or taking a long time to throw the dice can slow the game more. A Baccarat game where the players handle the cards is extremely slow. This is the kind of mindset that generates theo without the losses that go in line with it. In progressions you balance expected length of session, monetary risk, and average bet. You know you need a decent average bet, you don't want to bet too big recovering losses and you need to have staying power most of the time. Progressions are a dime a dozen but there are a precious few that fits the bill here.

It also is great when you can play with a nice advantage and get great comps. But like I said the strategies are designed for certain things. Some are negative expectation and designed to limit loses and exposure of your BR and others are designed to make money. Figure what you can afford to give back generating comps and leave if you lose it no matter how quick it happens. Sometimes it takes weeks and you are still ahead but sometimes you are done quick. If you are done quick go back to making money at your advantage plays. A lot of opportunities have certain times of day when they work best due to conditions varying throughout the day. You can comp grift when the advantage play is not worth the exposure or not available.
 
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I used to get Invite tourneys all the time @ BR and I live in Houston. I guess they sent me these for playing 100-300/hand @ BJ and me making them think I lost more than I really did if u know what i mean, lol.... but for this one im playing in this weekend @ L' Baton Rouge I really have no idea bec I haven't played here for at least 3 years and the only few times I did I ended up profitting due to their match program of reimbursement of up to $500. Yes, you can say I'm a REAL advantage player !
 
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