Team UBT

[Joep]

I have been pretty busy down here in Aruba but I know I saw a post by someone stating that members of team UBT should not be included in the player ranking system and I cant seem to find it to put this response in it's proper thread so Ken if you find it please move this response over there .

So my question is why is it that you feel that way, their are not given any special treatment as far as table draws and their enrty fees are added to the prize pool. If they earn the points they should receive them if they dont then the point is moot as they will not earn any points and never make the board.

Keep in mind that the player ranking system that will appear in All In Magazine will include all sanctioned tournaments not just UBT events that are open to the public and not an invite only event.

Im not a Team UBT member but I have no problem competing against them in any events.

How could you suggestion be fair as then the players ranking system would exclude certain players. Now does that make any sense ?.

Excluding players is something that casinos do

All In Magazine will not........................


Joep

 

[noman]

Rankings:

Hey, it's a starting point on the pre-season. Let's go from there. I have no problem with that bench mark getting adjusted for whatever happen(ed)(es) in Aruba.

It's a ranking system for those who participate in UBT. All righty then. If there ever comes about another tour, or ranking system, then maybe the number ones can "heads" up in a Super Bowl or World Series.

Otherwise it's a legitimate competition with MONEY! You gets what you pays for.

 

[Joep]

Read My Lips

A Quote from Noman

It's a ranking system for those who participate in UBT.

No its a ranking system that will include all sanctioned tournaments and Tours no matter where they are held or who runs them.


Joep

 

[pokernut]

How can it be fair, the average person cannot afford to enter every tourney as team ubt will do and BJ events are the same as poker. The more you events you play in the better chance of having days when you (a poker saying) have a horseshoe stuck up your ass, you can do nothing wrong and the cards just fall as you need them. You play perfect and no one either the dealer or a player sucks out to beat you.

 

[Joep]

Confused

So Pokernut you must also believe that the Poker Player rankings are unfair also.

So is Phil Hellmuth rankings a fraud as Annie Duke's or have they proven over the last 5 years that they can play with the best of them.

Why would you be against something that is good for the game and will provide more public awarness of the game

So are the PGA rankings unfair also because all can't afford to go on the golf tour

If you play in a tournament you dont earn points unless you advance deep into the tournament

If you happen to get lucky once you will not be on the leaderboard for long as you will have been passed by good players who have overall good results and that in itself is what this is about not 1 hit wonders but overall points over the years to come.

Or are you concerns that you will not have a chance to make the leaderboard and if you cant then no one should............




Joep

 

[pokernut]

Joe you have a great gift for putting words into peoples mouths. I never said anything about fraud. If two people are a equally good players, and one can afford to play in only 10 events and the other is backed and plays in 100 events the player who plays in the most will make the bubble in a greater number of events and this will rank him higher even though he may not be any better. And as for Luck if you watched the WSOP final table Jamie Gold or any decent player would have won with the cards he drew, he never had to outplay anyone he just caught the better hands. And Jamie would not have even been in the tourney if it had not been for being backed by BoDog and his backing did not come from being a class player it came from recruiting celebs to play at BoDog. And I don't believe Annie or Phil are sponsored by any of the magazines doing the rankings as Team UBT is.

 

[Hollywood]

How can it be fair, the average person cannot afford to enter every tourney as team ubt will do.

excuse me?

you're like the 3rd person who's made a reference to this in the recent past, and i just can't believe you (or anyone else) would possibly even BEGIN to think that this point makes ANY sense whatsoever. You've REALLY gotta be pulling my leg when you try to say that a ranking system isn't fair if certain players actually play more events than others!!?! i mean, give me a break -- blackjack is finally growing up & entering the mainstream world & people are really saying that its UNFAIR when some players have the means/time to enter more events than others??!?

in the poker world, those who win the major tourneys ($10,000 buy-in and up) get the most points. that's just the way it is -- part of the 'paying the dues' process is just that, paying the dues for years until you earn the means to have access to these top dollar events. the average poker player needs to find hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in entry fees, yet do you see anyone in the poker world saying that this "isn't fair" because others haven't got the means (read: become good enough poker players to HAVE this money/sponsprship in the first place) to play the same games?! please!

look, bottom line is, the new "Tournament Blackjack Player of the Year" ranking system will seek to provide the first truly accurate barometer of the best & brightest in our community; points will be given primarily on place finished in qualifying OPEN tournaments (NOT just UBT/elimination events!!), but also adjusted for the size of the field competed against & yes, the total buy-in. it just goes to follow that if someone beats out 200 people in a $2500 event, they should receive more points than someone who beats 200 people in a $250 event. attempting to discredit those who have spent years pursuing tournament gambling theory, in many cases devoting a large portion of their lives to it, simply because they have earned the means to pursue these events is simply LUDICROUS, as well as completely insulting.

as for certain players receiving sponsorship -- 1. its a result of proving oneself in the gambling world, not just 'handed out', and 2. its a job just like anything else. i'm a member of Team UBT, yet you make it sound like i'm just receiving some kind of handout. you have absolutely NO IDEA what i (or any other member) of this Team does for the group, what promotional/marketing/etc duties we perform, and if part/some/all of my/our compensation comes in the form of tourney buy-ins rather than a straight paycheck, who the F cares?! How dare you or anyone else even begin to suggest that after all the work, training, passion, and focus i & others in a similar situation be excluded from consideration, that we LOWER THE BAR and discredit those who work towards success in this field every single day just because they have, indeed, found some success at it? How hypocritical. Do i look at your finances or job & tell you where you could have saved the extra $2500 to enter a UBT event? Do i hold your personal financial situation, whether high or low, in any regard whatsoever when determining your tournament blackjack skill level? Absolutely not!! I don't care if the guy sitting next to me in a tournament is a self-made billionaire or a starving artist who won a free seat online: ALL that matters is how well he plays blackjack.

This new ranking system will at long last provide a fair, standardized, OPEN chance for any of us to play, win, and build their true reputations as tourney pros. The age-old debates of luck vs skill, what it takes to be a pro, & who is better than who can finally be answered. The first year or two will set a standard, and from there those who consistantly rank highest will be our pros. Maybe it'll be Ken Smith, maybe it'll be a new unknown player: but what we can all agree on is that if the same names pop up year after year, he/she is probably a pretty good damn tourney player!

So sorry, but i really have no compassion whatsoever about the whole finances thing. i personally consider myself a helluva poker tourney player, but don't have the same resources/sponsorships as many other players who top the Poker Player of the Year charts annually, so you won't find me very high up on the rankings chart -- but oh well! if i devoted enough time & attention to it, i'm sure i could make progress at that. But i chose blackjack instead. Its my profession. And for those players who strive to prove themselves as the BEST of the BEST, there has got to be a system in place to rate accomplishments against, and not one that handcuffs those who have chosen to divert more of their means than others do towards the pursuit of this goal.

-hd.

 

[Hollywood]

And Jamie would not have even been in the tourney if it had not been for being backed by BoDog and his backing did not come from being a class player it came from recruiting celebs to play at BoDog.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Jamie provided a service to Bodog, ie getting celebs to wear their logo during the Main Event. Rather than being paid $10,000 in cash, they paid him by buying his $10,000 seat. This was his choice. And it is absolutely NO DIFFERENT that if YOUR BOSS at work came to you and told you that they'd pay a certain portion of your wages to you in tourney buy-ins rather than in a paycheck. If you agree to it, so be it. Money's money, who cares if a company hands it to you for a service & you use it to buy in somewhere, or they just buy you in themselves.

Next you'll be telling me that if Player A makes $50,000 a year and Player B makes $250,000 a year that somehow its "not fair" if Player B enters more tourneys than Player A. What are you, the world's first blackjack communist?!

And I don't believe Annie or Phil are sponsored by any of the magazines doing the rankings as Team UBT is.

Magazines do not sponsor players. None do or ever will. As for Annie and Phil, BOTH are on Team UBT. Additionally, BOTH are sponsored by UltimateBet. Are you really going to tell them that they're not 'legitimate' poker pros because they choose to spend/divert whatever portion of their sponsorship income they deem appropriate towards playing in more tournaments than you or i? its what they do for a living, man! of COURSE its in their interest to play as many games as they can!! and i GUARANTEE you that well before the big deals and offers, they were putting every last dollar they could towards pursuing this career.

According to your inferences, as soon as a player wins a big tourney or lands a sponsorship deal (or retires a dot.com millionaire, or becomes a famous surgeon with a big salary & plenty of vacation time, or one of any number of other possible scenarios in which someone acquires the means & desire to pursue tournaments full time), they should be excluded/handicapped in a ranking system. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

As far as your suggestion of some sort of conflict of interest between All In and players who have been featured in its pages, that doesn't make sense either. 1. All In is NOT affiliated with the UBT or any gambling website/casino/tournament whatsoever, they just did a feature on them in the current issue because lets face it, the UBT is the biggest thing happening in blackjack right now, and 2. the criteria used for rankings are completely transparent, ie specific points given out based solely on actual real-time tourney results, as prescribed ahead of time for anyone to see. (Details will be released very shortly, as they are being finalized as we speak). All In recently published their pre-season predictions as to a Top 10 list of players, but those picks have nothing to do with who ends up being ranked where throughout the year. Again, the ONLY things that matter are RESULTS in open tournaments. Period.

-hd.

 

[fgk42]

This new ranking system will at long last provide a fair, standardized, OPEN chance for any of us to play, win, and build their true reputations as tourney pros. The age-old debates of luck vs skill, what it takes to be a pro, & who is better than who can finally be answered. The first year or two will set a standard, and from there those who consistantly rank highest will be our pros. Maybe it'll be Ken Smith, maybe it'll be a new unknown player: but what we can all agree on is that if the same names pop up year after year, he/she is probably a pretty good damn tourney player!

-hd.

Hey HD

Could it be me?

I've entered in the big tourney down here!

I'm in the 540 tourney today

Heck I've played in over 6 sit-n-go's down there and advanced through lots of ELIMINATION hands. I've placed 2nd once and 3 & 4 lots of times. That one 7 place didn't count because the Mrs. wanted to go eat.

Man that means I've got about 10-11 points already right?

OH CRAP That was TX's ranking system I was counting on! Guess I gotta go back and re-read that book on BJT play AGAIN. :joker:



Oh tha

 

[Rogue]

Gold was lucky?

And as for Luck if you watched the WSOP final table Jamie Gold or any decent player would have won with the cards he drew, he never had to outplay anyone he just caught the better hands.

Did you watch the same tournament I did? I saw Jamie win on several hands that most people would have folded on immediately. His banter caused several players to fold when they clearly had a superior hand. He even told them what he had on occasion. I'd say his skill and strategy played a big role in his win.

Will you next say that he was only able to do this because he was lucky enough to have a much higher chip count than everyone? You don't maintain that large of a stack by pure luck!

 

[KenSmith]

Did you watch the same tournament I did? I saw Jamie win on several hands that most people would have folded on immediately. His banter caused several players to fold when they clearly had a superior hand. He even told them what he had on occasion.

Boy did he. In fact, he never once lied when he told the other players about his hand. If he said he had a strong hand, he did. The other players kept disbelieving him, for hour after hour. It was really quite amazing, and I think it was an interesting psychological ploy. After all, when a poker player has been telling the truth for the last 4 times, when he tells you something about this next hand, do you believe him?

This month's Card Player magazine has a good interview with Gold, and a lot of interesting articles as well. Even though I'm not heavily into poker, I found it a fascinating issue.