tournament players unite

T

TheLegend

Member
Fellow tournament blackjack players......

In my opinion the economic slowdown will surely affect las vegas revenues and customer traffic, so an organized group of people will command a little more influence in Las Vegas than in the past.

Think about it.......an organized group of 200-250 blackjack tournament players........demanding a venue to play at least 3-5 tournmanets over a 5 day week end or mon thru fri........you would think we would have casinos fighting for our business....

sounds a little like Rick's TBJPA doesn' it......my belief, however, that Rick has not found success with the TBJPA is due to the fact that he did not get enough support.......so when we as tournament players lament the lack of tournaments to play in......we have no one to blame but ourselves.......

So I challenge each and every blackjack tournament player to set aside their expected value analysis when it comes to paying a membership fee, or dealers
fee, and send TXTOURPLAYER a private message that you would support a week long series of tournaments in Las Vegas and will support the association by showing up..........

Strength in numbers is very powerful.......Do we have the numbers...I think we do......WE JUST NEED TO UNITE AND COME TOGETHER AT THE SAMETIME.

otherwise you might end up like me.....playing NL Holdem tournaments online and going crazy......
 
I agree that the current economic times might mean more interest for this idea. I'd like to see it happen.
 
I'm still working on tournaments...

Trust me all, I'm still working on getting casinos to host TBJPA events. It is just hard finding managers willing to take a chance on hosting a big guaranteed event that is open to all players.

Frankly, most casinos don't want regular tournament players because they have the reputation of not giving the casino that much regular table play. They also feel that having their high rollers having to play tournaments against us gives us unfair advantage over them.

Honestly, most of us would have a slight edge, but only in certain situations. It still comes down to who catches the cards and at the right time, I don't care how good of tournament players you are.

Anyway, if the TBJPA could ever get a standard format and rules established around the country, I believe tournament blackjack would start picking up. Now there are just to many different formats and rules, we need to be more like TX Hold'em and have the same format and rules no matter where we play.

I am working on a year round qualifying event at a set location with monthly qualifying events (offering guaranteed prize pool, re-buys, and minimum two advancing from each table in each round and at a reasonable entry fee). We would also offer wild cards (which I hate), but they are good for the casinos to keep players in the casino.

Even better I am trying to get different casinos around the county to host satellite events (simular to what the WSOP offers). This would assure more prize money and make the year end championship event a nice overlay, besides offering chances to players who might not get a chance to travel where the monthly qualifiers are being held.

As far as the multiple events the Legend and Ken mention, I like that, but because of the cost, I would suggest we hold a couple of smaller one day satellite events before each monthly qualifier. We shouldn't host any longer then four days worth of events, again because of the cost factor to the players.

If you like my ideas let me know, if you have other ideas or comments let me know those as well. The more feedback the better.
 
Great idea, Legend!

TXtourplayer said:
As far as the multiple events the Legend and Ken mention, I like that, but because of the cost, I would suggest we hold a couple of smaller one day satellite events before each monthly qualifier. We shouldn't host any longer then four days worth of events, again because of the cost factor to the players.

If you like my ideas let me know, if you have other ideas or comments let me know those as well. The more feedback the better.
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I love the idea, and would be willing to help in trying to get something like that set up in my neck of the woods.
Actually I already have, but haven't had any luck so far. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.... :p

Having said that, I don't think that running these with any consistency over a calendar week would be a good idea. Most folks have jobs (and/or families) with the resulting responsibilities. Hosting BJT's during calendar weeks would force folks to burn up vacation time - or in the case of the self-employed, would cause a business week away from the business. Potential entry counts would suffer somewhat as a result. Wrapping BJT's around weekends is a better idea. Just an opinion borne from many years of promoting or participating in bowling tournaments.
 
The main point I would like to clarify is that we as a group need to organize prior to Rick going to talk to the casino...

As Rick stated he his having difficulty getting casino management to sign off on his idea. If Rick would plan his event and we would give a firm email commitment to attend, he could then shop us as a group with conviction, if you will, to a casino.

Rick, set aside the "they don't want us" in their casino because they don't think we gamble.......give them the argument that we bring family members that play slots, we rent their rooms, etc.........we are customers and I am betting they want customers.

Leftnut, on a side note, I sure was hoping for the ship to come in at Winstars, our both attending that unique little program at Vincennes University would have made for an interesting side story......but I digress, in regards to your scheduling comments, what I found during the real good tournament years in Vegas was you could play 7-9 events over a ten day period. As most folks were self employed or retired, scheduling was not a problem. The incentive to come was the number of tournaments, I tried to set the number of events at three in the later years when the number of events was dwindling, however, I found myself flying out sometimes for even one event to get my tournament fix.

I would like to see five events because that makes the time and airfare expense worthwhile.....that number of events is hard to hold over just a weekend.....

Rick, I suggest you pick a time in April, post a schedule of events, formats, pricing, the whole nine yards......except leave the venue as LAS VEGAS, CASINO TO BE DETERMINED.

Ask everyone to give you a strong email commitment and reward those that honor that commitment with an entry discount of somesort......

Put a must respond no later than December 1 to you on your request....then you have time to lock up a casino with hopefully 200 or more commitments.

Then follow up with .....you must make a deposit by such a date......or pay a higher entry fee.......

What it comes down to......is this......LOCALS in Las Vegas do not come out in large numbers to support blackjack tournaments, WE as tournament junkies, must show we are willing to show up......not sit back and wait for the guaranteed prize money........it just doesn't work that way......I wish it did but it don't......
 
good idea Legend

I'm not willing to travel very far to play in 1 or 2 tournaments unless the minimum garanteed purse is large. I would travel a lot farther for smaller prize pools in 4 or more tournaments. I think a good idea is to combine weekday evening tournaments with day time weekend tournaments. People could select which tournaments they want to play.

Tulsa ran 6 and 7 days of tournaments with medium sized prize pools and attracted big and small named players from all over the country. Some drove from Vegas. Rick helped them set up a great format. I enjoyed those events more than any others I have played. Some folks played all of the tournaments some played only 2 or 3. They quit having these tounaments because they felt that the tournament players where not playing the regular tables enough to cover any where near their expenses. They provided more than a 10% overlay.

Lets hear everyone's opinions.

Remember that the casinos need a reason to sponser these tournaments. They only exist to make money.

tgun
 
More choices the better...

To host a successful event I feel we need a main casino and several satellite locations so we can get as many players involved as possible.

This is the reason I suggest monthly qualifiers to give EVERYONE a chance at come play at differant times throughout the year. But to help and be more convenant for players who can't afford the expense of travel and the bigger entry fees, I really want to be able to offer satellite locations as well.

I also see the use of satellite events along with outside advertising as the only to make this an overlay event for the year end championship.

Hopefully The Legend is correct that Las Vegas is hurting bad enough they will be willing to start working with the the TBJPA and give us a chance to make these events a reality.

Bottomline the casinos want to pull in players, yet the players are not coming unless they have guaranteed prize money and or a nice overlay, good rules and format. If I can find a casino willing to offer the guarantee, the TBJPA can furnish the rules, format, and players.
 
Just thought that I would Ask!

TheLegend said:
Rick, I suggest you pick a time in April, post a schedule of events, formats, pricing, the whole nine yards......except leave the venue as LAS VEGAS, CASINO TO BE DETERMINED.
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Rick,

How about the week 22nd April 2009?

Neil Gagg (BJ side action) and myself are already booked to be in Las Vegas at that time and I would love to be able to meet up with the guys and play in another TBJPA tournament.

I just thought that I would throw a date in for purely selfish reasons.

Andy :)
 
tgun said:
They (Tulsa) quit having these tournaments because they felt that the tournament players where not playing the regular tables enough to cover any where near their expenses. They provided more than a 10% overlay.
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Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I've said it before but I think it bares repeating in the context of this thread:

Over the last few years, I've talked to many players at tournaments who say "Oh, I don't play the casino games. I'm only here for the tournament." Many are members on this site but I'm naturally not going to name names - you know who you are. Now that casino business is "slow", why should a casino sponsor an open BJ tournament if it will only add to the casino's overhead with very little side action from the players? If it's completely open, some of the tournament players will be people that the casino doesn't want (or has barred) playing their live games. So where does the casino make additional bucks during slow times by sponsoring BJTs?

Txtourplayer said "Bottomline the casinos want to pull in players". Well, actually, they want ploppies to give side action. They don't get that by holding open tournaments.
 
Toolman:

I am proposing that with rooms being paid for, traffic in their casino....etc....would be worth some casino manager's time and effort with Rick's assistance covering rules he just has to provide dealers......I can't believe that all of the tournament players are hardcore counters and will get barred....some might even play slots.......heck I even know accomplished counters who still play and get invited to come back.....so in this case are the pit bosses too stupid to recognize counters.........if they are that stupid then maybe those are the casinos we need to pursue as a group.......

I quess what I am saying is we can either assume nobody wants us and do nothing......or UNITE with a commitment to show up in strong numbers....

right now the attitude of some players is there is no positive ev so I aint playing or they have a wait and see attitude about when to sign up.....

online didnt work due to trust issues and a change in the law.....real life isnt going to work either until we change our thinking.......

all we have to lose is NOTHING....all we have to gain is FUN!

so Rick, I know u like the pressure........the ball is in your court....

work up a schedule for april........I will help you anyway I can........

damn I wish I went all in.....


PS

rick i just read your post.........i think you are spinning ur wheels to get a guarantee from the casino.....what is their motivation to do so? Show them a committed group of players that will put in their own prize money and that will get their attention.........chicken / esegg scenario.......more power to you if you can find that casino......work both angles I quess
 
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TheLegend said:
I can't believe that all of the tournament players are hardcore counters and will get barred
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Just to clarify one point. I believe that most tournament players are not counters. That may account for the reason many don't give much side action - just a guess.
 
I think the guarantee prize is a MUST!

TheLegend said:
rick i just read your post.........i think you are spinning ur wheels to get a guarantee from the casino.....what is their motivation to do so? Show them a committed group of players that will put in their own prize money and that will get their attention.........chicken / esegg scenario.......more power to you if you can find that casino......work both angles I quess
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I still think the casino needs to put up a guarantee to make the event(s) successful. If they do this already for their players and the TBJPA helps bring in additional players then the prize money should be guaranteed. Now if we bring in more then the guaranteed prize money through the number of entrees and re-buys, I feel that money should be added back into the prize pool.

I have talked to several players who like their rooms included in the entry fee, that is fine, but remember that the most anytime room fees will be taken out of the entry fees to cover their cost.
 
rick.....

then approach the casino from this angle.........tell them u have the players for a five event scenario.......let them comp in their players provided they put the entry fee in prize fund.......

the days of getting free rooms may or may not be gone........reduced rates due to state of the economy might be possible.....comps based on play is still an option if you want to risk your cash for the level of play they want to get ur room for free.....

I just think you need the power of a committed group of people to get their attention......
 
Comps for rated play...

As in any tournament, players who play the regular tables at a set average or above and for minimum 3 1/2 to 4 hours per day should be comped for their rooms and food.
 
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