Wsob

List of qualifiying locations

Rookie I agree that a posted list of WSOB qualifiying locations, dates, and times would be helpful in promoting the GSN's WSOB III qualifiers.

I sent an e-mail to Kevin at GSN trying to get a list of casinos offering qualifiers. When I get the list I will post it here for everyone.

As far as promoting the qualifiers, I think the casinos should be doing more to protect their $50,000 investment.
I don't fault GSN, but the casinos. I do however think there should be a uniformed tournament format used by all the qualifiying casinos.

The high entry fees with winner take all qualifiers don't seem to be working (so far anyway). However, as BJMailman pointed out the Cherokee casinos in Oklahoma are offering a small entry, and they spread out the qualifying over a few months. This seem to be drawing the largest crowds.

Cherokee seems to understand that by hosting their events this way, they can recope their investment a little at a time plus keep drawing players in on a weekly basis. They are also advertising the events in local papers here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth market.

I can't fault GSN for the casinos not marketing the tournaments properly. I can fault all the players who whine about not getting invited to be on the show and then don't play in these satellites.

I know Ken Smith and myself are both playing in qualifiers trying to win a spot and not waiting to see if we are going to be selected.

Last year anyone that applied had a shot to get on the show. This year anyone has a shot if you win a qualifier, so let's not hear about how only pros and Max's buddies get on the show. I am not a pro nor did I know Max before last year. I simply applied through a post here on Ken's site to get on last year's show.

Come on, we all need to be surporting these qualifiers if we want them to continue. Every casino that loses money on this promotion won't hold it next year. And if enough of them stop hosting them then GSN will go back to invitation only for the players, if they have the show at all.

GSN hopefully will offer WSOB IV next year, but if it is not open it is only the players fault for not surporting the qualifiying satellite tournaments this year.
 
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Has anyone seen anything on GSN about WSOBIII ? GSN should be advertising this. They should be showing the participating casinos. They should be pushing everthing they can to advertise this future show. It is in there best interest.
 
WHEN and WHERE?

I would like to know WHEN the WSOB will be held. We have been talking a lot about the less than dozen satellites being held around the country, but WHEN is the actual WSOB to be held?

The casinos holding the satellites don't even know. They don't know WHEN or WHERE the WSOB will be held!!! Hello, is anybody home? Now think about this:

Let's assume I own a casino. I have a conversation with a game promoter pushing PING-PONG POKER and our conversation goes something like this:
PROMOTER: Pay me $50,000 and you can hold a satellite.
ME: Sounds good. When will the finals be held?
PROMOTER: I don't know.
ME: Hum. Well, where will it be held?
PROMOTER: I don't know.
ME: Hum. Well, what happens if there are no finals, let's say due to lack of interest on the part of either not enough casinos or players?
PROMOTER: Be more specific.
ME: OK. What do I tell the winners of the satellites AND all the loosing players who entered the satellites that there will be no final after I collected their entry fee?
PROMOTER: Just give them back their money.
ME: What about my reputation.
PROMOTER: You'll survive, They'll forget about it.
ME: What about the $50,000 I pay you.
PROMOTOR: Hum.
ME: OK. You seem like a nice enough guy, so I'll tell you what. I just bought a new HUMMER, paid over $60,000 for it but my wife don't like it. Give me $20,000 and its yours. I'll turn it over to you when I'm ready.
PROMOTER: I don't think so.
ME: OK. I've heard enough. My secretary will show you the door. Oh, by the way, did someone write "stupid" on the back of my shirt when I wasn't looking?

Now this is of course a fictional conversation for a fictional event but it does illustrate a possible reason why we are not seening more satellites for the WSOB.

We, the BJ community, are trying to support WSOB but GSN is making it "difficult" at best. WE ARE NOT WHINING. We just want to know what's going on and ask for a fair shake. This reminds me of a tournament I played in a few weeks ago. When I got my seat assignment I asked for a copy of the rules since they were making major changes to the format from previous tournaments. They said they were not printed yet but the tournament director will expalin the rules when everyone is seated at their tables. I was forced to play, whether I liked the rules or not, because the entry fee was non-refundable (paid over the phone with a credit card). I think the analogy is clear. We know nothing about what's going on but are being asked to "trust" them. Trust is something to be earned. Have they earned my trust? Stay tuned. Need more information to answer that.

Now back to my question - WHEN and WHERE will the WSOB be held?
 
WSOB..a farce format??

Toolman I am begining to agree with you, this was promoted as a great opportunity for the BJ community at large that wanted to compete for a seat in a major event, what it has turned into for me is a 2 hour job per day with no results. I have emailed GSN asking for details without the decency of a return response yet they expect me to fly 8 hours round trip, rent a car and pay an entry fee to support them by playing in a qualifing satellite which I understand is financed by the casino's not GSN.

I thought the open to the world WSOB was a godsend but now it seems like a farce, GSN is very lacking in providing information and I don't agree that is only the casino's hosting the satellite's responsibility to promote or advertize the qualifiers, GSN is the ultimate recipiant for revenue produced by this show but seem to want to use others to finance it.
 
GSN Tourney's

With Norm and Kennye and their extended "family" working on the new gabazillion and the new UBT tourney, GSN will have their work cut out for them.


Not to worry, tournament playas, there will be big bucks to be made in these two formats with minimul equity. There were not false promises made. 2006 will be big with or without GSN.
 
Just relax

Just like in the first two seasons GSN probably won't announce anything until a month before the finals. Why, I am not sure but it is their show (and money) so I am not going to worry about when they announce the finals. My only worry with GSN, is trying to win a qualifying spot for the show this year.

I am still a big fan of GSN and will always support them. Remember until two years ago no one else had put blackjack on TV, other than the final table of the first Las Vegas Hilton Million Dollar tournament. GSN was the only one willing to take a chance on tournament blackjack as a show and set the ground work for other shows such as the upcoming UBT and hopefully others.

I really can’t believe what I am reading from some of the players. You wanted to get on the show and so this year GSN opened it up for anyone to win a seat and that is still not good enough. Just stop and think about what you are doing, if you piss GSN off, they may just agree with you and say you are right we’re not doing this right lets just stop, then where will we be?

Yes, I wish we had more information about the satellite tournaments and their locations. Do you realize how much it would cost to advertise around the country? Do you realize how much it cost GSN to send a sales staff around the country trying to get casinos to host these satellites? They sent them to all the casinos (talk about your door to door sales job) that is over 1,000 casinos that offer blackjack. How many have they sold? I think someone mentioned 11 casinos, that is $550,000 in revenue. Now let's see, they are giving away $1,000,000 in prize money on the show, that puts them at -$450,000. That is not even covering production cost, travel, the sales staff,…ect.

Another problem with GSN advertising which casinos are hosting satellites is, what if the satellites at some of the casinos are only for their VIP’s? The casinos may not want or feel that it is GSN place to advertise their satellites to the public and at $50,000 I agree with them.

We all know how bad most casino marketing departments are, they are the ones who should be promoting the qualifiers they invested $50,000 on.

A little warning, the last time I heard a player complaining about a tournament format and not getting any guarantees publicly was at the Las Vegas Hilton Million Dollar tournament. What happened, the player was banned from playing in the event for life. Do you really wa
nt to cut your own throat by complaining about an event that has doubled in prize money each year. Year one, 1st was = $100,000, last year 1st was = $250,000, this year 1st is $500,000.

I suggest everybody get out and start supporting the satellites we know about, so we don’t lose this open format for next year. If you win a seat in the finals, then you can worry about when and where the finals will be located.

I’m going to play in two, maybe three next week in Oklahoma. Hope to see some of you there.
 
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Location and date for the WSOB in Vegas

Here is what I found on the finals for the WSOB.

UTE Mountain's website says the finals will be in March.

Cherokee's website says the finals will be played at the Bellagio.

Pat
 
Go straight to the Man!

The person who came up with GSN "World Series of Blackjack", ask me to have any further questions sent to him at the following e-mail address:

[email protected]

He also told me that he will e-mail me a list of the casinos offering satellites qualifiers later today (time permitting) and I will post them for all to see.

Be nice, he is on our side.
 
WSOB Sites

Here is a list so far.
It may or may not be accurate, or up to date. Just take it for what it is worth, "a list", and use it as best you can. Go to each site directly for more info.

Cherokee is holding on-going events between now and February 5.

Ho-Chunk is awarding seats on Jan 7, 21, and Feb 4

Seneca Niagara has tournaments every Thursday

Ute Mountain awards seats on Jan 7 and Jan 21

Foxwoods is holding an invitation only event on December 16

Barona is holding an invitation only event on Jan 24

Casino del Sol has a series of qualifiers starting on December 15

Lucky Eagle has started a number of events which end on Jan 14

Mystic Lake starts events on Jan 10 and awards their seat on Jan 31

Pearl River holds events every Thursday through Dec 29

Thunder Valley is holding qualifiers on Wednesday nights and awards their seat on Feb 11

Again, this is the latest information I have, but players need to contact the casinos directly for the most up-to-date information.
 
No critizism = No improvement = Well, its not good

TXtourplayer:

You seem to be advocating a no criticism policy for the WSOB. WOW!

Only through constructive criticism will there be improvement. Without improvement there will probably be no WSOB in the future. If it fails this year, make no mistake about it, the fault will fall squarely on GSN - it's their baby, one cannot realistically blame anyone else.

They came up with the idea but don't seem to know how to implement it. They want to make millions, and thats good but they can't expect that to happen without a lot of hard work. Work they don't seem to want to do.

Players will support the WSOB if they get information and they like the information they receive. It's basic business knowledge - give the customer what they want at a reasonable price and you will success. You can't just shove anything down the player's throats and expect them to say "Yes Sir. Anything you say, Sir". If they listen to criticism, they have a better chance to succeed and that is what everyone wants - GSN and the players.

Other corporations much bigger than GSN adopted an indirect policy of not listing to their "customers" and they faced the inevitable. Who you may ask? General Motors, Ford, K Mart, and Sears for example. And, oh yes, the LV Hilton didn't listen and guess what? I think you know the answer to that although there were other reasons for that failure.

Remember - GIVE THE CUSTOMER WHAT THEY WANT AT A REASONABLE PRICE IN ORDER TO SUCCEED!! It's that basic.
 
What do you want?

I thought getting on the WSOB through satellite tournaments was what the players wanted. That is what GSN is giving everyone this year. However it is being done through several casinos, not through GSN.

How and when the casinos choose to run their qualifiers is up to them (at $50,000 per seat that is the way it should be).

If the satellites fail the casinos won't host them again next year (why would they). It wouldn't be just the casinos who would suffer, so would the players chances at winning a seat on the WSOB next year. Without satellites to fill up the seats GSN will just go back to selecting players. Is that what we want?

You need to understand that this is just one of many shows on GSN (and at the time not one of their top rated shows). Yet, each year they have increased the prize money for the players. Name me one other tournament that has done that over the pass three years (or ever for that matter).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see changes made and have more information given to the players, but slamming GSN is not the way to get it done.

While I was gone I see Swog posted the current casinos hosting satellites qualifiers that "KB" sent out.

KB had me post his e-mail on this site so you may ask him directly any questions about the satellite qualifiers or WSOB. I do hope everybody doesn't swamp him with e-mails.

I am not trying to be a smart-ass to any of the players, but I would be interested in knowing who has or is going to play in any of this qualifiers.

I have meet toolman and I know he loves tournament play and anything he posts I know his intentions are good and for the best interests of the blackjack community. Also Rookie, although I have only talked to him by e-mail and a few phone calls I know he to only cares about what is best for future blackjack tournaments.

Bottomline is all of us here want tournament blackjack to get bigger and better and I believe GSN is helping us get there.

I don't just apperciate GSN efforts for hosting these tournaments, but Ken Smith for giving us this site to discuss topics on, Kennye & Joep for their radio show and efforts to get the 2 Million tournament up, and everybody here that contributes to the events calender, or helpful posts.
 
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I'm going to the Ho-Chunk qualifier.

OK TXtourplayer, we both had our say and I'm sure you respect my opinion as I respect yours. So as you say or imply, lets get on with trying to make the WSOB a success.

To answer your question, I'm going to try to enter all 3 Ho-Chunk's satellite events on the first day of registration - Dec 10. Not sure if they'll accept multiple entries at one time but I'll try. I even talked up the event to other players when I played in their monthly tournament in Nov. I like their format - 3 rounds and the winner wins the seat. Each satellite (they are having 3, each 2 weeks apart) will be decided on one day. No need to jump through hoops. Nice and straight foreword.:D

Now to all the other members, let's get out there and play. You can't win if you don't play. Besides the opportunity to win over $500,000, what a great set of permanent memories you would get from that week. Your grandchildren will get tired of hearing the same story 100 times over. But what the hell, it'll be a great story to tell. Personally, I love to tell stories.:)

PS: I still don't encourage satellites that have a very poor equity. But as long as the equity is reasonable, I say go for it.
 
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Who's going where?

I am planning to join Ken at Ute Mountain on the 6th and 7th if the weather will cooperate. Hopefully one of us will win the seat there, if not I was figuring on seeing Toolman and Moneysystem at Ho-Chunk. I like both of these because they are one weekend tournaments, you don't have to win and then come back for a final later. Good equity is also a big plus for both of these.

Swog or TXtourplayer if you come up with more information on the other casinos that you listed, please post. Looking at their websites, most don't even show the WSOB at all.

Good luck to everyone, hope to see a lot of us in the final 40 in Vegas!
 
Pat, you're right about the websites. Few of them mention anything at all. I did visit all the mentioned ones, and posted a few updates to the calendar.

I'm still headed to Ute Mountain in early January, and I was planning Ho-Chunk later in January. However, the more I think about Wisconsin in January, I'm starting to get cold feet! :laugh: They also won't take phone signups until Dec 12th for that event.

I may do an Oklahoma tournament, though that will involve a second trip on Feb 2nd if I do well.
 
Differing Opinions!

TXtourplayer and Toolman1,

I think we are in the same boat and paddling in the same direction and our intentions and desires are the same. Give us a chance at a reasonable price (equity) for an opportunity like this and we'll be there to support it.

My only or main objection to the way the qualifiers are being held is out of 39 seats available only about 12 opportunities to win the seats have been public knowledge. Maybe GSN should have had all their ducks in a row before beginning the qualifiers. I personally don't want to spend 8 hours in the air and 4 hours in a rental car to participate and then get home to discover the next week or so there is a qualifing event 1 1/2 hours from my home.

There are over 3,000 members at this site and although it may not be GSN's responsibity to advertise the satellites, a post by GSN on BJT.com advising casino's participating would be cost free and take only a few moments. Seems like a small effort if GSN really wants this to be an open event.
 
Go with the flow

Rookie789:

Your point is well taken about your traveling question. Since we don't know what will happen, I say go for whatever is available to you. Ken Smith may travel from the fine state of Mississippi to meet us Mid-Westerners in Wisconsin if he don't get "cold feet" and possibly ptaylorcpa from Alabama, also a fine state. I have to drive 3 1/2 hours one way to get to the Ho-Chunk. Just do what you have to do but play.

It may sound like I'm changing sides but I'm not. I still hold the same opinion but now that I voiced those opinions it's time to focus on the positive. Let's do what each of us can do to make this a success. On that we are all on the same page. Good luck to you wherever you decide to play.
 
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Go with the quote!

Toolman1,

It is not "the fine state of Mississippi". It is "The Great and Sovereign State of Mississippi – where the Federal Government has no jurisdiction whatsoever!" - Ross Barnett

The Count
 
Equity

Right on the money Toolman, and Rook.
Let's not get hung up in the "equity" thing.
You are not placing a value on the seat that is won, nor the overall experience of being there.
 
Ho Chunk

You can sign up for all three qualifiers at the same time. However, they won't refund your money for the remaining two if you qualify with your first effort. Who cares? If you qualify with your first effort you're already money ahead big time.

It sounds like they're going to use GSN's blackjack rules instead of their own. They'll have to train their dealers to do that, but that shouldn't lead to too many problems. Their dealers are already used to following two different sets of rules - one for their monthlies and another for their weeklies.

Their monthlies usually draw, by my estimation, about 75-100 players. I don't know if this is an indicator of the turnout we can expect for the WSOB qualifiers. Just thought I'd throw that out there. They've been advertising it in their flyers and in the casino. Their website is silent on WSOB, but it's still advertising their October and November monthlies.
 
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