RKuczek
Member
I started another thread earlier on the $50,000 tournament to be held in Yuma this weekend. First post, I mentioned the very low turnout even low cost minis got in Yuma during the summer, and suggested that entries might be light, and a good overlay might occur.
Second post, I mentioned the casino's efforts to allow local players to earn their way into the tournament, or, at least, get discounted entries, and how this could turn the tournament into a seriously negative equity situation for paying players if they comped a lot of locals into the tourney. Worst case situation, 130 players buy-in for the full cost, then do a rebuy, thereby funding the entire prize pool, while up to 300 locals slide in free, to leach off the paying players money.
Also I mentioned the good rates on hotel rooms at the Quechan Resort.
OK - so what happened - good overlay or bad equity - lots of players or no one?
Well, more than 300 local players qualified for either a free entry or a discounted entry. These players either played in the 'mini-bouts' repeatedly to earn the comps, or they registered with the pit to have their play tracked to earn comps for the tourney entry. So ..... 27 players showed up.
That's it.
I think maybe 3 or 4 full pay entries, including me, a few fully comped local players, and the rest part comped/part paying local players.
27 players for a $50,000 tourney.
That would be $1,851.58 equity per player. And with little pay in, the casino would be putting almost all of that into the prize pool. And as I said, this casino has always honored it's guarantees. Once in the past, they had canceled a mini tournament, when only about a dozen persons showed up to play for a $5,000 prize pool ($35 entry fee). But they had also put on tournaments, with the full guarantee, when they had only 40 players show up, and the casino had to cover 75% of the $10,000 prize pool. But other than that one time, they have always honored the guarantees.
Well, not this time, eating $50,000 was just too much for them, especially as they where going to pay down to 24 places (out of 27 players). So the tournament was canceled.
What the casino did was offer a substitute tourney for those who wanted to play, for a $10,000 prize pool for a $100 buyin. For comped or partially comped players, their comps could be used for the substitute tourney. Paying players got their money refunded in excess of the new $100 buyin. Comped players with more comps than needed for the $100, got a dinner comp for the difference. No extra juice for the players here at all. Players that didn't want the substitute tourney got a full refund. That's it. 4 players chose the full refund, and one new player came in late, and decided to go for the $100 entry for $10,000.
Well, 24 players, for a $10,000 prize pool, that's $416.66 equity for $100 buyin, so I was in for the substitute tourney. They still payed down to 24 places, so you were guaranteed at least a $50 pay out. Net equity was just too good to pass up.
Two other BJTers at the tourney, besides me, one of whom took second.
Other notes:
Casino made an effort to make it a nice tourney. Good set up, they used a rotating button (not usual in Yuma), nice dealers and staff, and they put on a reception/registration event the evening before the tourney, with a good spread of food, as in, you didn't need to do dinner before, the roast beef, beef wellington, shrimp skewers, etc. would take care of you. A good physical set up in their event center, etc. Well done on these aspects of the tournament. Too bad no one showed up.
Bad note here, the few out of towners who checked out the hotel rates, got hit with $139 a night. This is probably the highest rate Quechan resort has charged for a room in a year. They evidently felt that they could make some money off of the tournament crowd that didn't show.
Final Comment:
Casinos don't understand blackjack tournaments. They don't understand who plays in them, how to attract players, or how to run them. They don't know the market, they don't know how to make them work. If a tournament works, it is not because the casino does it right, it is an accident. The casino will repeatedly figure out ways to screw it up, until no one wants to play it anymore. And we don't help them, by playing in bad tourneys with carnival game rules, and encouraging them to run them as promotions with hopes of making up the money with 'side play', etc.
What we get are efforts like this, a casino that figures it can run a promotion for its local gamblers, then sucking the tournament prize pool out of out of towners who will over pay for a big tournament, and over pay for a hotel room, and give them 'side play'. They don't know their market, or how to attract players, and somehow this doesn't work. Wow, imagine that. And the casino will blame the players for not supporting the tournament, and say that proves bj tournaments don't work; while the players will blame each other for 'not giving side play', and for not showing up when the money is guaranteed.
Actually the staff at Quechan Resort is very nice, and made an effort to put on a nice tourney. They just don't know how, they don't know what they are doing, and they can't get away from the 'how to make the players pay for the promo tournament' way of thinking..
Final Final Comment:
There were local players, who earned enough points either through the 'mini-bouts' or through tracked play, to get a completely comped entry into the tournament (and remember they had to make an effort to do this, either playing in the mini-bouts or asking for their play to be tracked for this), who did not show up to play. Free entry to a $50,000 tourney, and you don't show up? Also, quite a few players who had enough comps to get in for maybe $50 or so, who didn't show. Huh?
Final Final Final Comment:
What a disappointment. Quechan Resort staff say they will keep trying to put on BJ tournaments, they are thinking of a weekly tournament schedule, they have been successful with monthlies during the winter months. They also said they would be willing to try another big tournament in the future.
Second post, I mentioned the casino's efforts to allow local players to earn their way into the tournament, or, at least, get discounted entries, and how this could turn the tournament into a seriously negative equity situation for paying players if they comped a lot of locals into the tourney. Worst case situation, 130 players buy-in for the full cost, then do a rebuy, thereby funding the entire prize pool, while up to 300 locals slide in free, to leach off the paying players money.
Also I mentioned the good rates on hotel rooms at the Quechan Resort.
OK - so what happened - good overlay or bad equity - lots of players or no one?
Well, more than 300 local players qualified for either a free entry or a discounted entry. These players either played in the 'mini-bouts' repeatedly to earn the comps, or they registered with the pit to have their play tracked to earn comps for the tourney entry. So ..... 27 players showed up.
That's it.
I think maybe 3 or 4 full pay entries, including me, a few fully comped local players, and the rest part comped/part paying local players.
27 players for a $50,000 tourney.
That would be $1,851.58 equity per player. And with little pay in, the casino would be putting almost all of that into the prize pool. And as I said, this casino has always honored it's guarantees. Once in the past, they had canceled a mini tournament, when only about a dozen persons showed up to play for a $5,000 prize pool ($35 entry fee). But they had also put on tournaments, with the full guarantee, when they had only 40 players show up, and the casino had to cover 75% of the $10,000 prize pool. But other than that one time, they have always honored the guarantees.
Well, not this time, eating $50,000 was just too much for them, especially as they where going to pay down to 24 places (out of 27 players). So the tournament was canceled.
What the casino did was offer a substitute tourney for those who wanted to play, for a $10,000 prize pool for a $100 buyin. For comped or partially comped players, their comps could be used for the substitute tourney. Paying players got their money refunded in excess of the new $100 buyin. Comped players with more comps than needed for the $100, got a dinner comp for the difference. No extra juice for the players here at all. Players that didn't want the substitute tourney got a full refund. That's it. 4 players chose the full refund, and one new player came in late, and decided to go for the $100 entry for $10,000.
Well, 24 players, for a $10,000 prize pool, that's $416.66 equity for $100 buyin, so I was in for the substitute tourney. They still payed down to 24 places, so you were guaranteed at least a $50 pay out. Net equity was just too good to pass up.
Two other BJTers at the tourney, besides me, one of whom took second.
Other notes:
Casino made an effort to make it a nice tourney. Good set up, they used a rotating button (not usual in Yuma), nice dealers and staff, and they put on a reception/registration event the evening before the tourney, with a good spread of food, as in, you didn't need to do dinner before, the roast beef, beef wellington, shrimp skewers, etc. would take care of you. A good physical set up in their event center, etc. Well done on these aspects of the tournament. Too bad no one showed up.
Bad note here, the few out of towners who checked out the hotel rates, got hit with $139 a night. This is probably the highest rate Quechan resort has charged for a room in a year. They evidently felt that they could make some money off of the tournament crowd that didn't show.
Final Comment:
Casinos don't understand blackjack tournaments. They don't understand who plays in them, how to attract players, or how to run them. They don't know the market, they don't know how to make them work. If a tournament works, it is not because the casino does it right, it is an accident. The casino will repeatedly figure out ways to screw it up, until no one wants to play it anymore. And we don't help them, by playing in bad tourneys with carnival game rules, and encouraging them to run them as promotions with hopes of making up the money with 'side play', etc.
What we get are efforts like this, a casino that figures it can run a promotion for its local gamblers, then sucking the tournament prize pool out of out of towners who will over pay for a big tournament, and over pay for a hotel room, and give them 'side play'. They don't know their market, or how to attract players, and somehow this doesn't work. Wow, imagine that. And the casino will blame the players for not supporting the tournament, and say that proves bj tournaments don't work; while the players will blame each other for 'not giving side play', and for not showing up when the money is guaranteed.
Actually the staff at Quechan Resort is very nice, and made an effort to put on a nice tourney. They just don't know how, they don't know what they are doing, and they can't get away from the 'how to make the players pay for the promo tournament' way of thinking..
Final Final Comment:
There were local players, who earned enough points either through the 'mini-bouts' or through tracked play, to get a completely comped entry into the tournament (and remember they had to make an effort to do this, either playing in the mini-bouts or asking for their play to be tracked for this), who did not show up to play. Free entry to a $50,000 tourney, and you don't show up? Also, quite a few players who had enough comps to get in for maybe $50 or so, who didn't show. Huh?
Final Final Final Comment:
What a disappointment. Quechan Resort staff say they will keep trying to put on BJ tournaments, they are thinking of a weekly tournament schedule, they have been successful with monthlies during the winter months. They also said they would be willing to try another big tournament in the future.
