Paying the casinos...

This SUCKS!

I was looking forward to playing in this new Tour I have been working on, but now I have decided to just run the events only.

The playing in them really wasn't that big of a problem. I could deal with some player's comments about starting the Tour up and playing in them, but the points awarded for each tournament wouldn't be fair to the other players and like I always preach, "My tournaments are always fair to the players".

I couldn't justify getting points at all 12 events when several players would be busting their humps just to get the 7 events in needed to qualify for the year end standings.

I just feel if you are invested in a tournament or Tour the worse thing you can do is also play in them, it is just a no win situation.

I don't even play on the cruise tournaments for that reason, (Exception: the Sit & Go events we throw on the cruise, I will play in if another player is needed, but I won't take another players seat).

I guess I'll just be the guy organizing the Tour tournaments instead of the playing in them.
 
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Perhaps Year Two...

Maybe by the time year two comes around, the Tournament will be financially stable enough to be able to pay someone else to run it.
 
Actually...

The tournaments will be run by the casinos anyway, I am just organizing them. It is the points structure that would give me an unfair advantage over the other players. :(
 
Point system

TX,

Forgive my ignorance but how would the point system work anyway? Like in Nascar or the PGA?

Is there a post explaining it?

With the end of year points isn't it just for "bragging rights"? or is there a monetary reward for the highest point totals?

Like I said this is new to me so please bear with me ok?
 
Tainted Standings

Tex the way to solve your dilemma is pretty simple no points should be awarded for playing in the tournament. How would that be a good indication of who are the current top players are .You earn points for paying and showing up makes no sense. The only points that should be earned and awarded are points for Final table appearances. I might even go as far as saying semi final tables.Never should points be awarded for paying your entry fee's.That could and would taint any standings .


Joep
 
Zero

How can you justify giving a player 2 points for just playing and 1 point for advancing .Which is easier to do ? .Yet you earn double the points for it . No player who has played in any events and failed to advance should have any points. ZERO is and should be their points .

If we are going to do this lets do it right ,because if there is any notion of inflated numbers this whole concept will be looked upon as just another gimmick .

Joep
 
Hope this helps....

fgk42 said:
TX,

Forgive my ignorance but how would the point system work anyway? Like in Nascar or the PGA?

Hey if you don't know your suppose to ask.

Is there a post explaining it?

Here you go!

I have had a point system made up for sometime now however you need Open tournaments for the system to work.

You also need different casino locations throughout the country so some travel is a must for all players if they want to earn points.

And last all the casinos must be willing to use a set of official TBJPA rules and format at each location. Using the same rules and format for each casino is very important.

Tournament Blackjack Player Association
(TBJPA)

Points System for the Monthly Tournaments

With a point system we will be able to track and rank how all the players are doing throughout the year and offer a “Player of the Year” award to the player with the most points.

How the points will be awarded is listed below

2 - point earned for each monthly tournament you enter.

1 - additional for each round you advance until the finals.

Example:

2 - points for playing

3 - points if you make 2nd round

4 - points if you make the 3rd round (quarterfinals)

5 - points if you make the 4th round (semifinals)

6 1/2 - points for 6th place

7 - points for 5th place

7 1/2 - points for 4th place

8 - points for 3rd place

9 - points for 2nd place

10 - pointsfor 1st place

* NOTE: The points are awarded by what round you end up in or position. Every tournament always starts with 2 points and one point is added per round until the finals. The finals always start with 6 1/2 points for 6th place regardless how many rounds are played.

** Wild Card winners are not awardedpoints for further advancement, however the Wild Card may win prize money.

*** Minimum of 7 monthly tournaments per year must be played in order to qualify for "Player of the Year".

The pointswill be added to their total each month and may be viewed at www.TBJPA.com. Please allow up to four days after each tournament for the current standing to be posted on the web site.

Now for player ranking I was talking to Swog and he suggested something similar to the PGA going over a two-year period to earn your ranking.

For example:

Points are awarded based on round 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 wins and only TBJPA monthly events.

A minimum of 14 TBJPA monthly tournaments must be played over a two-year period.


With the end of year points isn't it just for "bragging rights"? or is there a monetary reward for the highest point totals?

These players rankings will be worth money at the end on the year. I hope we get enough of a following that the prizes would be as follows:

1st = $10,000 and "Player of the Year" honors
2nd = $5,000
3rd = $2,500

Like I said this is new to me so please bear with me ok?

No problem, I am more than glad and help you with any questions, if I have the answers.
Click to expand...

Hope that answered them for you.
 
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What I think

Joep said:
Tex the way to solve your dilemma is pretty simple no points should be awarded for playing in the tournament.
Click to expand...
Joep said:
I don't understand why not?

How would that be a good indication of who are the current top players are.

Simple, the players who end up in the top rankings year after year would be the top players.

You earn points for paying and showing up makes no sense.

This is an incentive to draw players to different locations. I would think the top "PRO's" in tournament blackjack wound love this concept. It will assure a strong following for each event.

The only points that should be earned and awarded are points for Final table appearances.

So only the players lucky enough to make the finals should earn points? WRONG! I believe every player that attends and supports a TOUR should receive points not only for attending each event, but for every round they advance.
This way players can still earn points even if they are not lucky enough to make the finals.

The whole point of ranking players is to see who the most consistent players are, not who catches the breaks and makes the finals.

I might even go so far as saying semi final tables. Never should points be awarded for paying your entry fees. That could and would taint any standings.

I disagree; you need the incentive to get players to travel around the country for these events. Players should be rewarded for supporting the Tour, (especially starting up a new one).
We have a lot of players (some new) on this site that feel they are just as good as anyone else and who is to say they are not?
With my format, I give them the chance to prove it. However, if you want to prove it you'll have to play in at least 7 of the 12 yearly events and be one of the top point leaders.
Any "PRO" tournament player should love this format. A "PRO" tournament player should attend every event even without points awarded for the early rounds.

Joep
Click to expand...

Until a better system comes along I think this is the best we have to work with.

I just think everybody on this site deserves a shot at proving himself or herself. That is what my Tour is designed to do.

My Tour is designed for EVERY PLAYER. Every tournament is an "OPEN EVENT" for all players.

The entry fees are affordable and we offer re-buys so out of town players don't have to just sit around if they lose their first round.

And the points are a great way of tracking who the top players are currently.

Let's face it. It doesn't matter what any of us have done in the past, it is what we are doing in the present that counts. The quality of play has increased a lot since we used to go out and win tournaments against players without a clue. The competition has gotten so much better among the tournament players these days.
 
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Incentive

Joep said:
How can you justify giving a player 2 points for just playing and 1 point for advancing .Which is easier to do ? .Yet you earn double the points for it . No player who has played in any events and failed to advance should have any points. ZERO is and should be their points .

Joep we are trying to get a new Tour up, what incentive is it for players to travel around the country for 0 points?

Any player that wants a shot at rankings for tournament blackjack should or will come to these tournaments. I am scheduling everyone on the weekends so most players will be able to make them without missing work (most of our tournament players actually have jobs to support their tournament addiction...LOL).

If we are going to do this lets do it right ,because if there is any notion of inflated numbers this whole concept will be looked upon as just another gimmick .

Once again I disagree. I believe the numbers are correct to draw the needed players across the country. The points are really just for bragging rights anyway. Yes there will be money awarded for the top three spots, but it is really just bragging rights when you get down to it.

Now I do believe the better players will come out on top because I designed the point format for the players who advance consistantly, which should be the "PRO's". Not just the players lucky enough to win one of the monthly tournaments.

Example: If you advanced to the 4th round in 5 events, you would have = 25 points. Now some new player catches the cards and wins a tournament for 10 points, but only gets to the 2nd round in the next four events for = 12 points (3 points each). I think it is safe to say that you with a total of 25 points over the newbie (even with his win) with a total of only 22 points shows that you would be the better player.

Joep
Click to expand...

I hope this changes your opinion, but once again until we come up with a better system this is the one were planning on using in the Tournament Blackjack Tour.

I think it is more than fair to everyone. Even more so to the "PRO" players, who should attend every event (to keep their self apointed PRO status).

The only bad thing I see happening is that some of the "PRO's" may get beat.

Ain't life a bitch....LOL
 
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Plan in simple

The points are based on the players advancement over the year, not over who gets lucky and makes the finals.

Just awarding points to the finalists only is mis-leading. There is too much luck involved in these tournaments and a better player may not get lucky.

I honestly believe I have the fairest format for a point system, but it does require the players play in over half the monthly events to qualify for the yearly rankings.

But anyone complaning about who the better players are should easily play in at least 7 tournaments a year anyway.

The true test will be three years from now when we can look back at who the consistant players were over that time period. Not who got lucky one year and then is never heard from again.
 
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Something Is Wrong Here

Is the poker ranking system that wrong . They never have awarded points for entry fees. In your attempt to create interest in your tour you are giving away points for just showing up. This is no indication of skill or who's hot who's not. If your tour is to be successful its not the two points that will make it that. It will have to be the players themselves who have decided that the old way was just not right and they are tired of the casinos just having to much control on who plays and who doesn't.

I myself will support yours or anyone tournament tour. This is what I do or should I say what I use to do . But now with UBT and maybe your tour I can go back to work so to speak .

Just don't pay me with points for just showing up let me and everyone else earn them the old fashioned way through HARD WORK

One final note where is the money for the end of year top player award coming from ?


Joep
 
We all need to support the tournaments

Out of the $300 entry fee, $50 will go to the end of the year event.

And from every $150 re-buy fee, $25 will go to the end of the year event.

Similar to the LV Hilton million dollar format, but on a lot smaller scale.

I would hope to have around $160.000 for the end of the year tournament plus another $17,500 for the top three point winners; 1st = $10,000, 2nd = $5,000, and 3rd = $2,500.

I have a complete format and figures worked out. The above totals are only based on 80 players per tournament! If we can't do better than that we better all start playing poker...LOL
 
With up to $160,000 floating around until the end of the year event, I'm concerned about the safekeeping of that nest egg. For myself, I won't play event number one until some sort of safety net is in place regarding the hold-out money. I don't know what type of structure would be appropriate, but it's gotta be bonded, insured, escrowed, or something.
 
Thanks

TX,

Thanks for the link and detailed explaination.

As far as the point system is concerned I can't comment for one simple reason - I've never been involved in something like this before so I'm approaching this from a totally new/novel position.

Personally as a newbie to tournmant BJ I'm happy to have ANY tournament to play in. :D

With regard to the rules that you have TX the standardization is particulary gratifying.

As far as professional vs. non-professional players - well what can I say? It would be nice to have the opportunity to play with the more experienced players.

I've read the complaints that people have with regard to the current system of "choosing" BJ participants and there are two (2) sides to that coin.

1. The "old school" BJ players who have been at this for years feeling that they should now get the recognition they derseve and entry into the tournaments/tours
2. The "new school" BJ players who want a shot and don't understand why the field is "tilted" against them.

I think the point system is a good "leveling" in order to reward those people who advance on a regular basis.

Having said that getting point just for showing up just seems to inflate the who system to me. I mean with the PGA they don't get points for just being at a tournament and playing. I mean you have qualifying rounds and the $ goes to the best players - that week.

What will make everyone happy? NOTHING. When you try to please everyone you wind up pleasing no one - just my experience in business.

Personally I appreciate all the work you've done and I will be there to play in the tour - just waiting for the dates. Good work TX
 
I agree with you

KenSmith said:
With up to $160,000 floating around until the end of the year event, I'm concerned about the safekeeping of that nest egg. For myself, I won't play event number one until some sort of safety net is in place regarding the hold-out money. I don't know what type of structure would be appropriate, but it's gotta be bonded, insured, escrowed, or something.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, I am hoping to get someone such as yourself, maybe S.Yama, and one other player to handle all the money for the end of the year prize pool.

I don't wish to handle any of those funds other than handing the funds over after the monthly events.

I am sure I will have my hands full with table and seating assignments as well as the monthly payouts.

I will also have my hands full with gathering the players points each month.

Having someone else handling all the year end prize money would be a great help to me.
 
fgk42 said:
I think the point system is a good "leveling" in order to reward those people who advance on a regular basis.

Having said that getting point just for showing up just seems to inflate the who system to me. I mean with the PGA they don't get points for just being at a tournament and playing. I mean you have qualifying rounds and the $ goes to the best players - that week.
Click to expand...

True about the PGA, but think about this. Tiger Woods blows off a U.S. event because there aren't any points and goes to play some event in another country because they are willing to pay him just to show up, more than if he wins the tournament.
I don't blame him, he has no incentive to stay here and play. That is why I added an incentive for the BJ players to try to play in as many events as possible.

Let face it, we're just starting out and we need as many players as possible to show up and play in as many monthly events as possible to keep the casinos happy.

I told the casinos that we would pay them for the first year, just so we could show them we really will support a blackjack tour. I have to offer the players some type of incentive to play in as many monthly events as they can.

Now once we show the casinos that we will support the tour, we can cut the paying the casino, but I still feel the point structure is as good as can be. It doesn't penalize the players for not making the final table.
 
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Tx-

While I reluctantly agree with Joep that points shouldn't be given merely for showing up, it's your tournaments tour! You're the one who's put in the time and money to get this started. Award points for oldest player, or whoever wore the color of the day. It's your baby, do whatever you want!!
 
It's like forced attendance.

If we had a existing Tour and we knew we had the following to support the Tour, then I may not have to award points for just playing.

However this is a new Tour and it has never been done before. I am sure each location will get its local players, but it is the out of town players that will make the Tour a success.

If we just offered a $30,000 blackjack tournament (which would be about 80 players), how many players would travel across country for that? Not many, but you add the points into the mix and now you have added an incentive to go play.

So now we get (let's say) 30 more players coming to one of the monthly events. That means 30 X $50 (for end of the year event) = $1,500 more plus if any of them re-buy it will bring in even more.

Now think about the monthly prize, 30 X $250 = $7,500 more in prize money.

Now I many be wrong, it may end up horrible, but this is how we are going to start out anyway. When and if we come up with a better way I am more than willing to try it.
 
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